So, I’ve tried this about three times before…
I used to believe some pretty strange things. No more. It took a long while to realise that believing and accepting anything without proof was just plain stupid. I’m a non-believer now, a skeptic.
And yes I’m an atheist. Contrary to popular opinion, this does not mean that I assert that there are no Gods. It just means that I don’t believe in supernatural deity’s, simply because there’s no plausible evidence of such.
Science has taught us that us that there is a natural explanation for everything. But science does not have all the answers…not yet. But I’m willing to wait.
I despise politicians, clerics, priests, preachers and holy men of all stripes. And I despise bigots, homophobes, patriarchs and fundamentalists. When they’re not looking after their own self interests, they’re busy tethering their allegiance to selfish Gods, archaic ideologies and vile masters.
I feel truly sorry for creationists, as the mental gymnastics required to maintain those beliefs must be taxing.
I’m all for gender equality and so would be proud to be called a feminist. I don’t care too much for authority though, and I’m non-conformist most of the time
I love science and history and books and music and cameras and travelling and writing. I don’t write as eloquently as others, but I write about what’s on my mind, with honesty and candour.
*****
Favorite Quotes:
“Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense” -Chapman Cohen
“Religion is an illusion and it derives its strength from its readiness to fit in with our instinctual wishful impulses” -Sigmund Freud
“Religion provides the solace for the turmoil that it creates” -Byron Danelius
“All religions are equally sublime to the ignorant, useful to the politician, and ridiculous to the philosopher” -Lucretius
“The need for religion will end when man becomes sensible enough to govern himself” – Francisco Ferrer Gaurdia
“Men become civilized, not in proportion to their willingness to believe, but in proportion to their readiness to doubt” – H L Mencken
“Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool”- Voltaire
“Religion, a daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable” – Ambrose Bierce
“So many gods, so many creeds
So many paths that wind and wind
While just the art of being kind
Is all the sad world needs” – Ella WheelerWilcox
Lenny Says 
Cooooooool!!!!!
Thanks Rosh, you’re an Angel. I hope you find my blog posts equally coool!!!
wow your are ridiculous and btw the song viva la vida is not about fucking anit religion i am not religous but the song is about napoleon and how he almost tulred the world with the french empire it has nothing to do with renouncing religion lol
Actually, the song has various interpretations.
I believe it’s Satan, not Jesus, Satan would rule the world before Jesus came to earth, then he was crucified and Satan ruled again, that’s why there was never an honest word again and saint peter won’t call his name.
Ryan, your spelling and sentence structure is ridiculous. Now if you have a comment about a particular post, make it on the space provided at the relevent post. Ad Hominem comments are really uncool.
You’re off course entitled to your literal opinion about the meaning of viva la vida. Try acquiring an appreciation for poetry.
Your favorite quotes are ASININE. I will not criticize anymore. I don’t believe it is my place to judge anyone, so I will leave it at that. I will however pray for you. May you realize the person who placed you on this earth and the reason you were placed on this earth……
Hi Lenny,
Must feel like you’re trying to talk to monkeys after reading some of those posts. I also have connected all the dots. It’s as clear as day when you do, but the problem is that religion slows down the brain so they can’t reach a higher level of consciousness. Why? one reason is because religion creates boundaries. I believe religion is the prime reason for all the problems in the world today.
TIME TO WAKE UP PEOPLE AND START LISTENING TO YOUR COMMON SENSE if not at least listen to Lenny.
And really what is COMMON SENSE?! it’s your sixth sense, intuition or some simply call it gut feeling, we all have you just need to learn how to tune in and trust me the governments nor the religions will teach you how because if they do they will loose all power.
Love and peace to all
Hi Darren,
Reaching a higher level of consciousness without the need for a primitive, superstitious belief in a god-thing is akin to being spiritual. A pity that the religious cannot see this simple truth. Buddhists, I think have come the closest.
Peace and love…
Yes, my father practiced Buddhism and my mother is a Geomancer, also I was lucky to be brought up on a small 95% self sustainable farm on the side of a beautiful maintain in NSW Australia.
When I left the farm and moved to the city and I was shocked, I can only say I was stained for life!!
LANA, please don’t waste precious time praying for me. Rather use it to acquire an appreciation for the great literary talent of the authors of those quotes. Or continue studying the peurile nonsense contained in that fantasy book that has dammned your faith over and over again. The choice is yours.
It may also come as a bit of a shock to you, but the persons responsible for “placing” me on this earth were my parents ( a man and a women), and they achieved this magnificent feat by participating in a fairly well-known biological process known as sexual reproduction (some call it just plain sex or copulation). Now, I know they probably told you in Sunday school, that the stork did it with the help of a magical sky fairy with a “divine plan”, but I hate to have to break it to you that that is just not true.
So, the next time you say you won’t criticize or judge…don’t. I know it’s hard being honest, when you can simply beg for forgiveness each time you trespass, but please try…
I dont know who you are!! But i want to say, without god , human race cannot be formed. Science can never bring a new life, it can only research on life, what God created!
Please dont be ignorant of God. God created you in his own image!
Actually, good sir, the concept of God is created by human’s consciousness and mind with the purpose of feeling whole when lost or comfortable when disturbed. I don’t hear your tone but by the way I read your comment, I sense some fear by the fact that some people can live WITHOUT believing in god or heaven or hell and any other things religious congregations say.
Maybe you were brought up by zealots and they made you dependent just like the whole society. I find nothing wrong with that, BUT you will have to be brave and find your own set of beliefs. There is nothing wrong with that either. The older you get, I hope, the more you find the courage to walk your own path, not the one that’s laid down to you.
Well said Pao…
Hello Pao,
Thanks for reply,
I want to know,
How come you say there is no God, but you still see what ever is written in bible(Word of God) is coming to past and you can check in the history.
Please check my post below brother!!
Hi Pao,
Check this out and let me know if you find any fault!!
Scientist , after so many research find these facts written in bible some 2000 years ago.
Only Creator knows better about his creations. user(scientist) may find it after some research but may not accurate.
actually the word “science” means knowledge,and the Queen of the sciences is theology. TRUE SCIENCE does not oppose scripture.
http://www.livingwaters.com/witnessingtool/scienceconfirmsthebible.shtml
Hi Paul,
How do you know for a FACT that the human race was created by a god? The only reason people still think this is because of the uneducated writings of ancient men who attributed creation to the gods in the absence of science.
“Please dont be ignorant of God.” Actually we are all ignorant of god because nobody has actually met such a creature. We only know about gods because of the rantings of ignorant men.
Hello lenny,
i am curious to know,
have you not seen or heard about miracles?
cancer getting healed instantly and tumer getting diappeared!!!
hopefully you must have heard of it. Do you think, they all are fake testimonies by people??
I believe its not, because i am hearing it almost every month.
Also with the help of modern science, can you create a living being without using another living being, which i claim ,its created only by god himself!!!
Do you still believe human evolve from a monkey. If so, why cant modern science do some research, and bring out human again from Monkey and prove it.
We all know Monkey is 5 sense. How come 6 sense human is created?
Also, if you have read Bible, you can read many scientific facts written long before science came into picture. which scientist discovered only recently.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Science_Confirms_the_Bible
Also,
History himself is divided based on Chirsts birth and death.
BC: Before Christ
AD: After Death
So you can never say you dont know about Jesus .
Also, you can see in Old Testament, god promised Isreal will form into a Nation.
Its fulfilled in 1947. If you read the history of Isreal, you will know how miraculous Isreal become nation, fighting the Big gaints surrounded Isreal.
Check out: Six Day War.
Please share you thought. Waiting for you reply brother!!
Hi Paul
When science explains what you term miracles, there will be no need to call them miracles any longer. Until, then I’m quite happy to be in doubt. It’s just too easy to accept certain occurrences which we can;t explain immediatley as miracles, and downright lazy to boot.
Show me proof of your creation belief.
Humans did not evolve from monkeys. Humans and monkeys share a common ancestor. Big difference.
In hindsight, one could interpret some writings in the bible to be scientific, but they are most certainly not, in the strictest sense of what science is about.
BTW, BC and AD is not used commonly any longer. Nowadays it is more correct to use the terms BCE which is before the common era and CE which refrs to the current era. This avoids the religious complications.
God promised many things in old testament. Odds are that some will come true. There’s nothing special about that.
Dear Brother,
I have seen miracles, where doctors gave seeing medical report and up on the patients. No science or medicine could even understand, when god interfere and does miracle by saving that person.
you ask me for proof of creation belief..:-) you know i cant prove that now. But as a practical man, we all know, if you need to CREATE a thing, there must me a CREATOR! its very basic right!!
Common ancestor? if so, who created that common ancestor?
But you cant deny this fact, our ancestor did used BC and AD in the history, which significanly proves, Jesus came to this earth and bible is true. You can even visit to the places that are mentioned in bible. Even today it exists as a proof.
God promised many thing. God also said, “heaven and earth will pass away but my words will never ever pass away”. you can check this by following up.
Not odd, i strongly say, everything will come true. You can keep an i on that.
Did you read about the history of Isreal? You can see that as
proof in this modern world. You can see Jews, holding powerful positions in the world. Its because of Gods promises on them. He is still faithful to his promises.
Nature itself clearly explains existence of God ,Look at the stars, look at the mountains, look at the oceans and every animals and plants, and season changes
How can you say there is no God?
You know there is God, but you just cant accept it because of your wisdom.
If you really seek and search for God, he will surely help you to find him.
Can you point one verse that is against science. Scientist always find it wrong in the beginning. They are just theory. They are not 100% true. You know those theory are getting changed and new theories are coming and finally they confim what is written in bible is true!!!!
You can not deny that table right??..they is nothing to compromises . Its very straight forword!!!! its true.
Hi Paul
You just think you saw miracles because you couldn’t explain it any other way. Don’t worry, it happens to quite a lot of people.
“But as a practical man, we all know, if you need to CREATE a thing, there must me a CREATOR! its very basic right!!”
So who created god then?
The AD and BC dating system was devised in the year 525 and not used extensively until around the year 800, to date years before and after the advent of the Christ myth in the Julian calendar as well as the gregorian calendar which is used widely today. It does not prove anything about Jesus, nor say anything about the bible. Your’re grasping, my friend.
The Jews hold powerful positions because of their own individual abilities. It has nothing to do any gods. Many other individual from other races/creeds/nationalities also hold powerful positions. Is this also a “present” from a god? If so, then holding powerful positions is quite common for everyone with ability to do so. Nothing special there and negates your argument.
“Nature itself clearly explains existence of God…”
No it doesn’t. Nature explains nothing. Science attempts to explain the wonders of nature, but it still does not have all the answers. This doesn’t mean that science will never expalin everything some day. Be patient and be willing to say you don’t know, instead of just being lazy and attributing everything to some god thingy. There was a time when people thought that lightning and thunder was about the gods expressing their anger. Now we know better because science unravelled the mysteries of lightning and thunder. And so science will continue to unravel the mysteries of the many things that people attribute to gods.
“Can you point one verse that is against science. Scientist always find it wrong in the beginning. They are just theory. They are not 100% true. You know those theory are getting changed and new theories are coming and finally they confim what is written in bible is true!!!!
You can not deny that table right??..they is nothing to compromises . Its very straight forword!!!! its true.”
Please go read up some more about what science is about. It’s not straightforward.
Hi Lenny,
Hope you are patient with me and not angry on me!!
What is science basically? It’s nothing but understanding the nature. Man find out some theory and it become science. You know humans are prone to mistake. Humans don’t use 100% brain, due to some reason.
Do you believe in big bang theory? Do you believe that one fine day, a force is generated from nowhere and it is the reason for creation of earth? Because of that force, millions of stars are created and planets are aligned beautifully in the orbit and sun is kept in the centre to give light during day and earth kept in required distance away from the sun to maintain correct temperature for living. You believe it is one of the reasons for creation for millions of living being, plants on land and inside ocean? And each animal are created with their own organs and tissue with reproductive system, and food chain is maintained perfect.
Because of that earth is filled somehow by 1/3 water, which is perfect for earth?
How that is, human alone is formed superior over all other animals? Why another creature like human in didn’t form from another ancestor?
If you seriously believe in Big bang theory, can you please give explanation for the generation for that force which bring out big bang? These are just theory; where man tries to find answers for himself. Universe is created long before existence of man himself. It’s all assumptions; we can’t prove all is true.
God’s wisdom is infinite. We may not understand certain things now.
Science works well for whatever man creates. Science is just a part of life. Science doesn’t promise life. But God promised life even after death.
Let me ask you one question. What if whatever said in bible is true and one fine day you are standing for judgement before god, after living a life opposing existence of god himself, even after , told you about God!!!
Who is the looser? It’s me or you?
I don’t loose anything even if there is not god. I am enjoying life in earth and I don’t loose anything. I have peace in life. Why do you take chance? There is only one life. Choice is yours?
I believe there is even greater life after death, god prepared for me.
Tell me one verse from Bible that will not come to pass. I challenge you, heaven and earth may pass away but no word will pass away without getting fulfilled in its time.
If you really find hard to accept God, I personally ask you to do one thing.
Go to your room locked, kneel down and ask for god’s help. I swear he will help you if you thirst for him. Just a try brother!
Please say this below prayer from your heart, God will definitely help you:
“Dear God, I really doubt your existence. I couldn’t believe your word. If you are real, please prove yourself, so that I will accept you as my God and stand as testimony”
Please try!
Hi Paul
If I came accross as angry, I apologise. It’s just that I’ve been through the same things you bring forward many, many times. If you check through the comments you will see that I’ve covered your beliefs many times before.
Science is not a belief system like religion. It changes all the time as new evidence comes forward. That’s what’s brilliant about it. Re;igion is mired in dogma and refuses to change in spite of the mounting evidence that proves that there is no reason to continue accepting its tenets.
I don’t care what the bible says. None of it is based on scientific principles. The onus is on you to prove that the bible is the word of god, and indeed that said god exists. I only accept what science proves to be true, not the writings of ignorant men who demand that we believe them based on authority.
I find it hard the accept the concept of a god because it is not based on evidence. Provide the proof and I will accept. Please don’t tell the proof is in the bible, because that is just circular reasoning and invalid as proof.
If there is indeed a god, I’m well prepared to “take the chance” because I base my life around rational thinking, not blind acceptance. If a god does indeed exist, I’d rather go to his hell than hang around with such a shallow being for eternity.
All I can say is you and your values make me sick. You are completely blind and sounds like there is no hope for you…. So whatever floats your boat, so to speak…. And yes regarding your smart remark about SEX, I do know what sex is, I have children of my own…. Hello, I am not stupid!! Your remarks are DUMB and only make me upset that you believe what you believe, which we are all entitled to our own views, that is what makes the world go around. And sounds as though you live in a weird world…. Seems as though you thrive on keeping a “stink stirred” and probably always will live that way…. Oh and don’t worry I won’t criticize or judge, again that isn’t my place…. you have your beliefs and I have mine I think it best if we leave it at that…. I know you will respond, but I could care less what you have to say. I presume you are fueled by responding to remarks like mine and you get a thrill from it. Good for you if you do… You live a sad life. Just remember, I am not the idiot that has a website posting rediculous quotes, but again, that is your belief and I have mine. Gosh, I have better things and better people to talk with than ramble on to you, it is definitely not worth my time. Again you have succeeded in making another person absolutely astonished, amazed, and sickened by your beliefs. But one thing you can’t do is stop me from praying for you….
Funny, but I thought that religious people were instructed to “not judge others”. I learned this from my Christian background. Either Lana is very young, or she is incapable of having an intellectual conversation. The mere fact that Lana said she “had children and was not stupid” in the same sentence leads me to believe that she was not thinking clearly when she wrote what she wrote.
Look, people are not going to agree with everyone; that would be boring. It is nice to hear the thoughts and different perspectives of others; it stimulates thought. Lenny, I think you handled this beautifully with logic, and I also enjoyed the quotes you provided.
Lana, you should be absolutely ashamed of yourself.
I know it’s a bit late for this comment, but I notice, Lana that you went from “It’s not my place to judge” all the way to “I condemn you” really quickly …
LANA, LANA, LANA, just read out aloud what you have written and then take some time to re-examine the contradictory and sanctimonious remarks you seem to make with gay abandon. Don’t invite ridicule, and you won’t get it thrown at you.
And thanks for the compliment; I merely aim to inform, but “astonish?” Wow?
More of you, I think.
Yes, we need more of you.
JP
PS I think your quotes are quite wonderful. What an intriguing way of revealing yourself.
Lana, with respect, I think you need an education. Does it occur to you that in one short,ignorant sweep of the pen, you have consigned some of humanities greatest thinkers to the bin, as asinine.
Surely not ?
JP
JP, I knew there had to be someone out there who would appreciate those quotes; I chose them because it amazed me how so few words could convey so much truth and meaning.
Lenny, I see that this problem is endemic now, and I refer here to the kind of rubbishy, ignorant, and just plain rude, irrelevant comments like LANA’S, that quickly descend into angry vitriol, and darn right abuse.
Would you, ever just go to a site you knew you were not going agree with, and leave a comment calling people “idiot” “dumb”.
I mean, this woman, just bursts on with “your quotes are ASININE”
She ends up calling you dumb, she says you make her sick….
She is at pains, to twice, no less, point out that she doesn’t judge, or criticize , and then says “You live a sad life. Just remember, I am not the idiot that has a website posting rediculous quotes, but again, that is your belief and I have mine. Gosh, I have better things and better people to talk with than ramble on to you, it is definitely not worth my time.’
I have seen this kind of insanity before.
Initially only at institutions for the criminally insane, as my work has taken me there.
Now, I see it again, on blogs like yours, and mine.
I was just last night told by an anonymous person, that I made him sick, and that I was a lonely man, and pretty much the same stuff that this LANA spits at you with such impunity.
I have a theory, I think that insane asylums are giving their patients internet access perhaps as therapy and the rest is a is to b is to c….?
I sometimes think its the same person.
Who knows?
LOL. Perhaps they’re trying to get back at society by giving us some of that shock therapy…
JP,
Did you read Lenny’s comment to LANA’s first, completely harmless blog? With all due respect, it was very condescending and rude. That smart remark about sex was really unnecessary, and I really think you should keep in mind that Lenny was just as rude to LANA as she was to Lenny.
Rudeness and insults are perfectly acceptable on this blog. I don’t mind being called names. However, I take a dim view to irrational/illogical and untestable comments. Such comments will be met with rudeness and insults to match the degree of inanity reflected in the comment.
I totally agree. Lenny got LANA going and he was TOTALLY rude. Why do they think that it is okay for them to make crappy comments to others, but its “off with a head” (so to speak) if someone calls them on their own stuff. Seriously Lenny and JP, think about what was said to LANA first. The comments you guys are making apply to you guys just as much as it applies to LANA. You yourselves were being pretty judgemental.
Lana, with respect, I think you need an education. Does it occur to you that in one short,ignorant sweep of the pen, you have consigned some of humanities greatest thinkers to the bin, as asinine. (That sounds quite judgemental to me.)
I have a theory, I think that insane asylums are giving their patients internet access perhaps as therapy and the rest is a is to b is to c….? (Just plain rude and uncalled for)
Or continue studying the peurile nonsense contained in that fantasy book that has dammned your faith over and over again. The choice is yours. (right there Lenny dogged Christian beliefs, but he doesnt want them saying anything about his)
Lenny, what the hell makes you and yours so freakin superior? Really?
Hmmm, what makes me so “freakin superior?”
Let’s see now. Probably the same thing that makes you and Lana think that your religion is superior to everyone else’s.
When theists go around exerting their particular religion’s moral superiority, someone needs to step in and level the playing fields.
Religious conviction is not the best weapon to have in your armour when shooting from the hip. As I have said before, don’t invite ridicule…
Sorry to go on, but look at Ryan’s comment. It is beyond belief. It doesn’t even make grammatical sense, never mind semantic tableaux!
I have seen this grammatical form before too.
This is from a 7 year old who has overdosed on Ritalin.
Not criminally insane like LANA.
And lastly, why do these people, drugged up minors, and marginally psychotic cyber stalkers, always pick the “about” page to launch their attacks ? (This modus operandi is evident on my site too)
Ryan’s comment does not belong on this page, perhaps, because he is only 7, we can forgive him
But LANA?
Who criticizes a person’s choice of quotes ?
Its a personal attack, thats why they pick the most personal part of your blog, and, its calculated.
Mockery and humour aside, its somewhat disturbing.
Good night.
Actually, a few days after posting that reply to LANA, I felt that I had been too harsh on her, but now I feel somewhat better.
I don’t mind the personal attacks really; I just lament the fact that people don’t even try to make it sound rational.
Quotes are quotes. That’s all they are.
I’m actually quite sad no one has spewed hatred towards my list of quotes on my blog, considering I’m one of those pathetically idiotic Christians you speak of…mmm…
Gabrielle, I beg to differ: quotes are not “just quotes.” By your reasoning, passages (verses) from the bible are also just verses from the bible; they are just words and mean nothing.
A quotation is useful because it has significant literary value, in that it evokes certain emotions and is meant to appeal to the intellect.
With one stroke of your pen, you have done a great disservice to your own holy book by turning whatever literary value the bible has, into a meaningless jumble of words. You have probably just confirmed that people who get into a “religious fervour” after reading passages from the bible, are indulging in psychotic behaviour, because it can’t be the words turning them on, it must be something else entirely…
One other thing. I suspect that the majority of visitors to your site are pro-religious or Christian. So, it does not surprise me in the least that they have not maligned you or passed disparaging remarks about your quotes. Since there are no such remarks on your site, what does this tell you about any atheists who have visited your site? Atheists, generally (yes, there may be exceptions) understand the value of quotations and would only comment on any irrationality or faulty logic, if such was present.
hey Lenny
been very interested on most of what you wrote, that made me so curious and yes as a rat i have been killed, here i am making a comment unbelievable.
i will comment on both religious hoax emails and this on top, you know i dont even have to be rude but i have a heart for you and yeah i dont have to teach you or try to prove to you on christianity cos no one can and wont. and to finalise it all yes am a christian but what i will say to you is this you will know him, you know people think God needs backing, no he doesnt if he did then christianity wud be different so just wait he will do it himself and when he does you will change i can guarantee you for that and please let me know wen it does happen and kep in touch, it can take years but he will do it cos he never let his own down thats his creation in this case you cos he loves you…………. gosh i said i wont do this so i guess i will live it here.
regards
luce.
Hi Lucy,
Thanks for being brave and commenting. Unfortunately, I don’t have “years” to wait for your version of god to “change” me. Life is short, and you will apreciate that I have to live it. Since you seem to know this “god” so intimately, please ask him/her/it to hurry up and “do it himself.”
In the interim, I suggest you get on with your life and not wait for me to “let you know when it does happen.” Call me psychic, but I somehow know that you won’t be hearing from me.
Lennymaysay,
I don’t want to be rude and I definitely WONT preach to you. I just have one question that I want you to think about. If your claims are true, and, as you say, there is no God, then what will happen after death? We all get buried into the ground, the maggots and worms eat us and we are basically annihilated from all existence, right? Am I correct in saying that? However, and be honest with yourself, what if you are wrong and Christianity is right? Then what? Christianity states that believers would go to Paradise (Heaven) and be with God and those who dont believe would be in an excruciating torment for all eternity. This life is TEMPORARY and will one day end, but Lennymaysay, eternity is quite a long time, and frankly it isnt worth gambling on. Is proving your claims about Christianity (not knowing 100% for sure that they are right) worth your eternal damnation? I can guarantee you that there is a God and his son, Jesus, is real, because they both turned my life around. And I’m always taken care of, no matter what. I dont think that several times in my life can even compare to being a coincidence, because that and luck eventually run out and God doesnt. In that sense, I can also guarantee you that there are demonic spirits and a demonic place, I have felt their negative presence before. However, can you be totally sure and PROVE that there is no God, Heaven, Hell or Satan?
Hi Just me,
I’m really happy for you; that your life has turned around and that you believe that it was a supernatural intervention. However, your “belief” does not make the existence of these supernatural entities true. Even if every single person on this earth, apart from myself, “believed” this is true, it does not make it true in reality.
Allow me to present an analogy. I believe that there is a giant teapot orbiting the Milky Way galaxy, but I don’t go around the world trying to convince everyone that my belief is true, and so everyone else must also now believe it.
I’m not trying to prove there is no god and heaven and hell and satan; I’m just saying that there is no evidence (scientific or otherwise) for their existence. The atheist position is absence of belief. The onus is on you to prove their existence since you make a claim for it.
On a personal note, I’m not concerned about what happens after death. It’s really quite pointless stressing about the unknown. I’m quite happy to be worm food. In the interim, I’d rather focus my energies on living life.
Hey Lenny. I used to visit atheist sites out of interest. I don’t know why, I’m a religious person myself, but deep inside I knew, I had some doubts in my own faith too. I found God-venerating sites a little too defensive about their religion, and some Christians really verbally abusive to atheists. I started to believe that I might be in the wrong crowd because I was born with the religion and I thought I was becoming an atheist, as all my hopes about God were beginning to break, piece by piece, by rational people like you. I surfed the Web, and science and religion overwhelmed my minute brain. Too much information. Although I kept on holding back from agreeing to some of the facts and opinions presented by so many non-believing people – one day, it didn’t matter.
I am fascinated with the world – with everything. The science of it all. Although I’m an open minded person, it never occurred to me that everything in this world is a result of random events, and coincidence. It is too beautiful, too complex, too otherworldly that even water cannot be totally studied – at all!
The perfect example for something so unimaginable and meticulous is imagination. It seems to have such power: sometimes it is even bordering on infinity but then you hear of something very unusual about a certain subject that you could’ve never thought of you had the capability to think of.
And I come back on Earth and realize…there is a God. The universe is in perfect harmony. How come two people from the other side of the world meet and be in love with each other? Why are there things that seem to defy science and defies it more and more by the second? Good and evil is always balanced as if someone’s controlling it. Science cannot prove anything as of now – the steps in undertaking are too small to see the big picture.
Life for me is too short to spend on things I know I will regret: although there are some gray and black points all over my life that I can blame God for – but it is me who has chosen those path and here is where shall I remain – no further “It’s Your fault” rantings. Everything has a purpose, and maybe mine is to be a lesson for others. The South Africans starving and dying of AIDS…they serve a purpose.
It is not important what religion I have, for anything that’s organized and involves money can’t be kept out of evil. What’s important is what I believe in. And I believe that’s what matters. We can try to prove certain things: but actually it’s like the iceberg quote, “You only see the tip of the iceberg…etc.” We can try to prove that there is no such proof of His existence – it’s just trying. It’s something our feeble heads put together can never prove or disprove! Man sometimes thinks of himself as a very high, all-knowing, wise person when science says they come from Apes! Haha. ‘Tis quite funny. Men are names, they are nothing, things they invented remain (some even deprecate) but they do not reap what they sow after death. Which is quite a useless existence after all in my most humblest and honest opinion.
But in my heart, despite all the evil raging inside me, all the lust, all the hatred, the fear, the doubts, the unknown…there is the faith. I hope the world will never lose hope on this! 🙂
When I die I do not intend to be worm food. Although my body will be, that’s for sure. 🙂 I hope all the questions I have for the higher power shall be answered when that time comes. I’ll meet Him. People will think I’m deranged, but why am I happily so? Well the Joker seems to be smiling a lot too…but let’s not talk about him…
In case there’s isn’t any God…feel free to laugh at me. I guess it might come to you as real crazy. To me it’s something that’s worth striving for, ’cause after the end of the road… no one knows, and I just might be extra lucky. Too bad, if it isn’t. Surely I didn’t lose anything of importance.
“Yes, faith can be called ignorance. But no one can truly be called wise.”
You can quote me on that! Although those quotes are really mind-boggling.
Adieu, sire!
P.S.
I enjoyed your post. It is a very interesting read. If there’s anything wrong about what I said, please, feel free to tell me. 🙂
Hi DarkLady,
You sound sincere enough and if you’re comfortable with where you’re at, I wish you well.
However, please reconsider this statment that you made:
What if you were one of those SA’s dying of AIDS? Would you think that your condition was serving a purpose? And how do you suppose they would feel, if they were told that their suffering is “for the benefit of others, or a ‘higher’ cause? Think about it?
Yeah, now I think of it. Maybe that’s one thing I cannot justify, but I’ll try.
I didn’t starve my whole life, I don’t have AIDS, I do not know what it feels. But if I were starving, all I can think about is eating. If I have AIDS, I might not even think of God, as my head is preoccupied with keeping myself alive. Or maybe I don’t know about it. There’s nothing I can do about it but rely on my parents, on medicine, on NGOs. Or the government. With children, it’s not their fault, they are the products of their parents. With adults or teens it is a different case. You will not get AIDS by touching someone, right?
But it’s still unfair, right? Why of all people, me? Why not them? They’re evil, they kill people, they rob others, they cheat on their wives… I don’t know. But I do know I have lived a respectable life, and I will not be ashamed of what I have…I might be a living testament that there is hope after all…because even though life is bitter I managed to stay strong…
Well every person feels that on a certain degree the world is unfair with them, with other things. And sometimes they have it all but are still tormented that they kill themselves… I don’t know why, but it feels good inside that you know the money you made came from your own blood and sweat.
I can relate, because there are some issues in my life that I feel so helpless with. It’s not very critical, but I don’t want to invent something for dramatic effect…
I came from a very well-off family. We went to private school, me and my siblings. My parents did not ever spoil us, but they were very agreeable with children wanting material things. I went to college, and spent my allowance on everything but college-related. I never studied. I should’ve studied.
The next term we couldn’t afford it anymore. We became bankrupt. Couldn’t do anything about it. Two of us stopped going to school and I became a bum. I’m working now, still not a graduate, with low wages, and I realized I should never have taken it for granted. Not too many people go to college, or eat food once a day.
What if the world was given to you, complete, and everything you’ve ever wished for? All the knowledge is there, the food, the shelter, the people you want, no crime, immortality, in other words: perfect.
I figured it would actually be useless. Actually existence is not essential. You would take everything for granted. There is no room for improvement: much less thought. No work to do. You would never realize how life is so beautiful. There is no journey. You would never appreciate it like you do now. We need to lose something in order to learn that we need to value what we have. Sometimes, not even ours, but others as well… our conscience will whisper that we’re abusing things that people are desperately in need of…
That’s where examples and lessons come in. If I died of AIDS: let my death speak. I will regret the fact that I haven’t been too lucky, that I didn’t have the chance to live my life the way I wanted it to be – but I have been instrumental in a purpose far greater than Marilyn Monroe’s… that is, to echo the phrase, Life should not be taken for granted. I would not want other people to experience what have I experienced…it is too painful. But it should serve. Something better might be waiting for me, hopefully…
With mistakes we can be better persons. These are depressing situations, we cannot avoid them, we cannot change them as we do not have power over them, but out of it we can think of something good.
Sorry, I might not have answered your question the way you wanted it to be answered, I might’ve missed something, but I think I’m dumb when it comes to these things too. I think I am fairly shallow, haha. I do not understand how the world works as it is almost always cruel to me and my family…it is very unfair too! But on very tough times, we are able to survive, thanks to God (because most of the time we were incredulously broke it felt like a miracle that someone helped us). 🙂 (I’m from a 3rd world country.) When I think of it that way somehow I feel the burdens are lesser and the world is a little happier…
And sorry for taking up some much space in here! 🙂 Thanks Lenny.
Geez I sound way too cheesy! 🙂
Hi DarkLady,
Rational people don’t wish for the impossible. We learn to face the challenges of reality. We cannot create a make-believe world (supernatural) to deal with reality. In that way we only postpone the inevitable. We need to be real….always.
Hey Lenny. I used to visit atheist sites out of interest. I don’t know why, I’m a religious person myself, but deep inside I knew, I had some doubts in my own faith too. I found God-venerating sites a little too defensive about their religion, and some Christians really verbally abusive to atheists. I started to believe that I might be in the wrong crowd because I was born with the religion and I thought I was becoming an atheist, as all my hopes about God were beginning to break, piece by piece, by rational people like you. I surfed the Web, and science and religion overwhelmed my minute brain. Too much information. Although I kept on holding back from agreeing to some of the facts and opinions presented by so many non-believing people – one day, it didn’t matter.
I am fascinated with the world – with everything. The science of it all. Although I’m an open minded person, it never occurred to me that everything in this world is a result of random events, and coincidence. It is too beautiful, too complex, too otherworldly that even water cannot be totally studied – at all!
The perfect example for something so unimaginable and meticulous is imagination. It seems to have such power: sometimes it is even bordering on infinity but then you hear of something very unusual about a certain subject that you could’ve never thought of you had the capability to think of.
And I come back on Earth and realize…there is a God. The universe is in perfect harmony. How come two people from the other side of the world meet and be in love with each other? Why are there things that seem to defy science and defies it more and more by the second? Good and evil is always balanced as if someone’s controlling it. Science cannot prove anything as of now – the steps in undertaking are too small to see the big picture.
Life for me is too short to spend on things I know I will regret: although there are some gray and black points all over my life that I can blame God for – but it is me who has chosen those path and here is where shall I remain – no further “It’s Your fault” rantings. Everything has a purpose, and maybe mine is to be a lesson for others. The South Africans starving and dying of AIDS…they serve a purpose.
It is not important what religion I have, for anything that’s organized and involves money can’t be kept out of evil. What’s important is what I believe in. And I believe that’s what matters. We can try to prove certain things: but actually it’s like the iceberg quote, “You only see the tip of the iceberg…etc.” We can try to prove that there is no such proof of His existence – it’s just trying. It’s something our feeble heads put together can never prove or disprove! Man sometimes thinks of himself as a very high, all-knowing, wise person when science says they come from Apes! Haha. ‘Tis quite funny. Men are names, they are nothing, things they invented remain (some even deprecate) but they do not reap what they sow after death. Which is quite a useless existence after all in my most humblest and honest opinion.
But in my heart, despite all the evil raging inside me, all the lust, all the hatred, the fear, the doubts, the unknown…there is the faith. I hope the world will never lose hope on this! 🙂
When I die I do not intend to be worm food. Although my body will be, that’s for sure. 🙂 I hope all the questions I have for the higher power shall be answered when that time comes. I’ll meet Him. People will think I’m deranged, but why am I happily so? Well the Joker seems to be smiling a lot too…but let’s not talk about him…
In case there’s isn’t any God…feel free to laugh at me. I guess it might come to you as real crazy. To me it’s something that’s worth striving for, ’cause after the end of the road… no one knows, and I just might be extra lucky. Too bad, if it isn’t. Surely I didn’t lose anything of importance.
“Yes, faith can be called ignorance. But no one can truly be called wise.”
You can quote me on that! Although those quotes you’ve given are really mind-boggling.
Adieu, sire!
P.S.
I enjoyed your post. It is a very interesting read. If there’s anything wrong about what I said, please, feel free to tell me. 🙂
So sorry for the double post. And I’ve overdone it. So sorry.
Hi, that’s cool, no harm done.
Here are some interesting quotes from so-called denominational founders that should have taken the same road as Krishnamurti. All that denominations and religion itself does is create apostasy.
“I ask that men make no reference to my name, and call
themselves not Lutherans, but Christians. What is Luther?
My doctrine, I am sure, is not mine, nor have I been crucified
for any one. St. Paul, in 1 Cor. 3, would not allow
Christians to call themselves Pauline or Petrine, but
Christian. How then should I, poor, foul carcass that I am,
come to have men give to the children of Christ a name
derived from my worthless name? No, no, my dear friends; let
us abolish all party names, and call ourselves Christians
after Him Whose doctrine we have.” – Hugh Thomason Kerr, A
Compend of Luther’s Theology (Philadelphia: The Westminster Press, 1943, p. 135)
“Would to God that all party names, and unscriptural phrases
and forms which have divided the Christian world, were forgot
and that the very name [Methodist] might never be mentioned
more, but be buried in eternal oblivion.” – John Wesley,
Universal Knowledge, A Dictionary and Encyclopedia of Arts,
Science, History, Biography, Law, Literature, Religions,
Nations, Races, Customs, and Institutions, Vol. 9, Edward A.
Pace, Editor (New York: Universal Knowledge Foundation, 1927, p. 540)
“I look forward with pleasure to the day when there will not
be a Baptist living! I hope that the Baptist name will soon
perish, but let Christ’s name last forever.” – Spurgeon Memorial Library, Vol. I., p. 168 Charles Haddon Spurgeon, one of the greatest Baptist preacher who ever lived.
And last but not least Jesus Christ…
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
Bruce,
You are quite serious about this denominational thing, aren’t you? Could you not take it one step further to its logical conclusion, and abandon Christianity as well?
Then we could use the time to marvel at how science explains the wonders of the natural world (as opposed to the supernatural world), and debate more important things like the state of the world, poverty alleviation, pollution and self-serving politicians.
Lenny,
It is illogical to abandon your belief, but in order to truly know if you do believe in that which you say, you believe. Is to ask if you would die for that belief.
Today is remembrance day in Canada the whole country is shut down, as we honor those that died for us, that we may have a better life. A life that is built on democracy, free press, free thinking and the will to live.
If nobody fought we may not be here to issue our thoughts freely via the internet and the wireless communications we have today.
If nobody fought for the right to co-exist then we would have fallen prey to the Nazi’s and their Darwinian belief of a master race.
Adolf Hitler took Darwin’s evolutionary philosophy to its logical conclusions. For example, he wrote in Mein Kampf:
Such a dispensation of Nature is quite logical. Every crossing between two breeds which are not quite equal results in a product which holds an intermediate place between the levels of the two parents. This means that the offspring will indeed be superior to the parent which stands in the biologically lower order of being, but not so high as the higher parent. For this reason it must eventually succumb in any struggle against the higher species. Such mating contradicts the will of Nature towards the selective improvements of life in general. The favorable preliminary to this improvement is not to mate individuals of higher and lower orders of being but rather to allow the complete triumph of the higher order. The stronger must dominate and not mate with the weaker, which would signify the sacrifice of its own higher nature. Only the born weakling can look upon this principle as cruel, and if he does so it is merely
because he is of a feebler nature and narrower mind; for if such a law did not direct the process of evolution then the higher development of organic life would not be conceivable at all.62 (emphasis added)
The demand that it should be made impossible for defective people to continue to propagate defective offspring is a demand that is based on most reasonable
grounds, and its proper fulfillment is the most humane task that mankind has to face. Unhappy and undeserved suffering in millions of cases will be spared, with the result that there will be a gradual improvement in
national health.63 (emphasis added)
If Nature does not wish that weaker individuals should mate with the stronger, she wishes even less that a superior race should intermingle with an inferior one; because in such a case all her efforts, throughout hundreds of thousands of years, to establish an evolutionary higher stage of being, may thus be rendered futile.
History furnishes us with innumerable instances that prove this law. It shows, with a startling clarity, that whenever Aryans have mingled their blood with that of an inferior race the result has been the downfall of the people who were the standard-bearers of a higher culture.64 (emphasis added)
My logical conclusion is one; that without a higher love we are doomed and that we must first learn to love each other in order to love God.
Hi Bruce,
I suppose it’s perfectly logical to believe in talking snakes and talking burning bushes, and people walking on water.
I’ve visited your beautiful country twice and I am very impressed.
And here we go again: Hitler’s interpretation of Darwins Theory, and subsequent actions, should have no bearing on the validity of the theory or on the character of Darwin himself. By your own logic, the bible should also be condemned because of all the madmen who over the years used biblical teachings to inflict untold suffering on humankind.
I would really find it hard to “love” someone who is credited with the following, as compiled by one Simon Ewins.
1. He created evil (Lam. 3:38, Jer. 26:3, 36:3, Ezek. 20.:25-26, 1 Sam. 16:23, 18:10, Isaiah 45:7)
2. He deceived (Jer. 4:10, 15:18, 20:7, 2 Chron. 18:22, Ezek. 14:9, 2 Thess. 2:9-12)
3. He told people to lie (Ex. 3:18, 1 Sam. 16:2)
4. He lied (Gen 2:17, 2 Sam. 7:13)
5. He rewarded liars (Ex. 1:15-20)
6. He ordered men to become drunken (Jer. 25:27)
7. He rewarded the fool and the transgressor (Prov.26:10)
8. He delivered a man, Job, into Satan’s hands (Job 2:6)
9. He mingled a perverse spirit (Isa. 19:14)
10. He spread dung on people’s faces (Mal. 2:3)
11. He ordered stealing (Ezek. 39:10, Ex. 3:22)
12. He made false prophecies (Jonah 3:4. Gen. 5:10)
13. He changed his mind (Jonah 3:10)
14. He caused adultery (2 Sam. 12:11-12)
15. He ordered the taking of a harlot (Hosea 1:2, 3:1-2)
16. He killed (Num. 16:35, 21:6, Deut. 32:39, 1 Sam. 2:26, Psalm 135:10)
17. He ordered killing (Lev. 26:7-8, Num. 25:4-5)
18. He had a temper (Deut. 13:17, Judges 3:8)
19. He was often jealous (Deut. 5:9, 6:15)
20. He wasn’t omnipresent (Gen. 3:8-9, Gen. 4:16, 11:5, 1 Kings 19:11-12)
21. He wasn’t omniscient (Gen. 3:8-9, Deut. 8:2, 13:3, 2 Chron. 32:31)
22. He often repented (Ex. 32:14, 1 Sam. 15:35)
23. He practiced injustice (Ex. 4:22-23, Joshua 22:20, Rom. 5:12)
24. He played favorites (Deut. 7:6, 14:2, 1 Sam. 12:22)
25. He sanctioned slavery (Ex. 21:20-21, Deut. 15:17)
26. He degraded deformed people (Lev. 21:16-23)
27. He punished a bastard for being illegitimate (Deut. 23:2)
28. He punished many for the acts of one (Gen. 3:16, 20:18)
29. He punished children for the sins of their fathers (Ex. 12:29, 20:5, Deut. 5:9)
30. He prevented people from hearing his word (Isa. 6:10, John 12:39-40)
31. He supported human sacrifice (Ex. 22:29-30, Ezek. 20:26)
32. He ordered cannibalism (Lev. 26: 29, Jer. 19:9)
33. He demanded virgins as a part of war plunder (Num. 31:31-36)
34. He ordered gambling (Joshua 14. 2, Num. 26:52, 55-56)
35. He ordered horses to be hamstrung (Joshua 11:6)
36. He sanctioned violation of the enemy’s women (Deut. 21:10-14)
37. He excused the beating of slaves to death (Ex. 21:20-21)
38. He required a woman to marry her rapist (Deut. 22:28-29)
39. He taught war (Psalm 144:1)
40. He ordered the burning of human feces to cook food (Ezek. 21:3-5)
41. He intentionally issued bad laws (Ezek. 20:25)
42. He excused the sins of prostitutes and adulterers (Hosea 4:14)
43. He excused a murderer and promised his protection (Gen. 4:8-15)
44. He killed a man who refused to impregnate his widowed sister-in-law (Gen. 38:9-10)
45. He is indecisive (Gen. 18:17)
And I still don’t get why we need “higher love” to prevent some unspecified calamity. We are only doomed if we continue to believe in absurdities.
You have a good point with the verses you posted but if you look at the story and verses around it you can see that He did it for the better of His people or because it was in some predetermined law that His “leaders” thought up. He just wants the best for us and if we refuse to follow with what he says or asks us to do that’s our choice. WE decide what we ultimately do, NOT God. I would suggest looking up the verses and instead of just focusing on the verses posted look at the verses around them and understand the story behind it.
Hi Anonymous
What if I persecuted, humiliated and denigrated you, then killed your family, wiped out your whole neighborhood? Then I tell you not to complain, because it’s good for you; it’s for a purpose you shouldn’t question. Think about it?
The only reason you you choose to believe (and obey) the bible is because you have been sold a sop-story by the clergy, which you bought on fear of reprisal from a being you are not meant to see or question. You have allowed yourself to be intimidated.
However, that’s your choice. I choose to be a man, in charge of his own destiny; I don’t take kindly to threats, especially if they command me to be be irrational and more especially if thery come frm a source I am not meant to question.
Bruce, your are a good man.
I can only help you explain what your trying to say to these people through this video.
I just watched the video and thought it was hilarious even though it was completely anthropomorphic. Thanks for posting it…
Lenny
So what are you saying, that you believe in the theory of evolution as truth for our planet and all of mankind?
Although an impressive piece of work I don’t think Darwin believed it himself.
Consider;
“To suppose that the eye, with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest possible degree.”
Simon Ewins just like the religious zealots he fights try to make the bible say something other than it is actually saying allow me to take only a few of his examples and show that here.
1. He created evil (Lam. 3:38, Jer. 26:3, 36:3, Ezek. 20.:25-26, 1 Sam. 16:23, 18:10, Isaiah 45:7)
Duh! this is like saying that cars are not useful because they burn gasoline instead of diesel fuel which is 50% more efficient then gasoline. God told the first of us not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Since we did it is now His fault for creating in us freewill.
2. He lied (Gen 2:17, 2 Sam. 7:13)
How preposterous is this premise that God lied Adam and Eve spiritually died and the throne is not of this world. Before the fall, man walked with God and talked with Him. The point is you cannot touch, smell, or see it. It is like insurance there if you need it!
3. He is indecisive (Gen. 18:17)
God says in Proverbs 15:29 The LORD is far from the wicked but he hears the prayer of the righteous. He was willing to listen to Abraham but the place was still destroyed. Putting anthropomorphic thinking on to God doesn’t work, because He is higher than our highest thought.
Hi Bruce,
I don’t believe in the theory of evolution as if it’s some sort of belief system that can be adopted to fit in with your world-view or personal beliefs. It’s like saying that the theory of gravity is just a theory. I accept evolution as a fact of life, because it has been scientifically verified and has stood up to rigorous analysis and testing which is beyond reproach. New evidence is found almost daily which backs up everything postulated by Darwin.
Yes, Darwin may have ben quoted as saying that, but note that he uses the word “seems” to clarify his apparent disbelief. It’s easy to quote mine or interpret what people say to conform to your own world-view. People have been using the bible for this very effect, for a long time. But Darwin is merelt saying that even though it sounds hard to believe, it is a fact. That’s the thing with science: it’s not about how popular or nice or feel-good something is; it’s about verifiable proof and rigorous testing.
About Simon Ewins: what makes you think that his interpretation of the bible is any more wrong than anyone else’s, including yours.
Lenny
The problem with the theory is there is NO missing link or any transitional forms to prove it. You think there would be literally millions of transitional forms to prove that we evolved from one cell. Pretty big stretch from the billions and billions and cells that just happen to fuse together to make me as I am.
The bible says that we are fearfully and wonderfully made Psalm 139 and the theory of evolution says we evolved from one wee cell into this complex multi-billion cellular creation that we currently are. I doubt that very highly. However we do evolve our thinking, we evolve our habits, we evolve our ways, we evolve raw intelligence into the usable functional intelligence that can share meaningful dialect in the search for truth.
The truth will set you Free…
Jesus Christ
I stand in awe of my body…
It is never too late to give up your prejudices…
Henry David Thoreau
Hi Bruce,
Please refer to my earlier response on evolution in the blog post “Another Religious Lie That Came Through my email”
I know this is going to sound harsh, but it needs to be said. I am the one sharing meaningful dialect; you have been sharing the fantasies and dishonesty concocted by others, to push the god agenda. Not surprisingly, none of the dialogue you have shared with me in all your previous correspondence as well, is new to me. I have heard it all before; debated it all before, debunked it all before. So, although you are not to blame for the absurdities, you unfortunately, have been caught in this insidious god trap that’s been sold to you.
It would be far easier to just tell people “go to hell and let me believe what I want to,” instead of using dishonest and uncritical rationalizations to substantiate your beliefs. I certainly would appreciate that much more.
Yes, the truth will indeed set you free, but you first have to find it.
Lenny
For your information I am not sharing anything concocted by others my reason for believing in God is personal and experiential. In my youth 20 years old or so I prayed to God and he showed me he was real. So now I personally believe in God the Father, Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy spirit as shown in the bible. What happened was something that was unbelievable for me and met a need at the time. I don’t feel caught in a God trap but I do believe that Christianity as a religion is fake and made to rob the ignorant of a meaningful relationship with God. So I don’t blame you or others for your reservations about religion.
This was my first experience. I’ve always had an entrepreneurial spirit and teamed up with another fellow to create a board game. We ran out of money, and had no food left in the cupboards. He was a Christian and I was not and I used to tease him sometimes unmercifully about his faith. We did have a box of macaroni and cheese in the cupboard but no bread or milk to go with it. Out of ridicule towards him and perhaps some frustration (hunger) I said I would pray to his God for the required milk and bread. And after doing so, we walked a ways and there on the ground was a bag with bread and milk in it. The milk was still cold. After seeing the look on his face like you can do that I said, “it was coincidence” and waited for the person that left it, to show up, but they never showed up. I enjoyed the meager meal that afternoon, but did not think it was an answered prayer until several weeks later.
One off my brothers had found God when he was in jail for drug related crimes and when I told him the story he explained the grace of God through Jesus Christ to me which made sense, he also gave me a bible. During that time I was working in an convenience store to get by and carried my new bible everywhere. One day some big unruly dude was calling me a bible thumper and I proceeded to thump him with a stick I kept under the counter for unruly jerks. I never got arrested for the assault but I lost my job for my over-enthusiastic behavior.
Over the next 13 years I continually asked myself what it meant to be a follower of Jesus Christ. The problem was I didn’t know the answer to that question. I started a new business and ended up in another city were some of my colleagues were Christians that asked me to attend their church. So I did. When I walked into the building the first time we were shown the way to the nursery so we could drop off our kids. My wife and I then entered the sanctuary and wham both of us could feel the presence of God there. It was overwhelming we both began to cry and I being a completely unemotional man. Man I didn’t know what to make of it. That is when I began to change from the inside out.
The change that was started was frustrating at first but slowly I began to embrace my new self. For instance I began to notice my anger was about not understanding what I was feeling at the moment. and that anger and fear are closely related and somewhat synonymous in nature. It was liberating to be able to express myself and be vulnerable to my own hurt feelings for the first time in my life. I sold my business joined a waste management company and transferred back home. We moved back home and I bought my first black leather bound bible which I began to read with a hunger, I had never experienced before. During the first months back we lived in an apartment that had a large refuse container for the residents.
During this time I remembered in my childhood I had an aunt that was a Christian and when we visited her she had some biblical scrolls on her dinner table that as children we used to fight over getting to read them at meal times. When I tried to find this product in the marketplace I couldn’t find it anywhere. Being of an entrepreneurial spirit I began to think I should create this product. One day as I was reading in my bible at 2 Peter chapter 1 some verses jumped out at me as to what it actually means to be a believer in Jesus Christ. Clarity at last! It talked about adding to your faith, virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.
One problem I wasn’t a biblical scholar and had no idea what to do, I mean I barely knew about God and the bible. And didn’t people go to school for a long period of time to learn about Him. So I prayed and said “God if you want me to do this then you will have to physically provide all that I need to do it”. No sooner did I say amen that my wife walked in from outside and said “there is a huge box by the refuse bin that is full of all kinds of bibles and texts about God”. “Perhaps you should go see if you want it”. I went and looked. It had books on ancient Latin, Greek, Hebrew and English. Concordances, bibles and philosophical discussions about God. It looked like all the stuff someone learns about God in school. So since the year 2000 I have been studying and creating a product I call Holy Scrolls. It is a labour of love for I feel the hand of God in my labour daily. and when I complete the steps to brotherly kindness and love then I will release my work to the public. Perhaps it will be in my lifetime, perhaps not.
So if you think I am arguing with you, I assure you I am not. All I am doing is sharing the reasons why I believe in God. My evidence is personal and intangible but then so is the idea of money compounding or insurance yet nonetheless those two things are real. For without God I have no real purpose on this earth except to live and die. While I prefer to have something with which to live and die for. And I would die for my belief in Jesus Christ as did the first true believers of Jesus Christ. Debunk that my friend!
Also I must add that my bible teaches that telling one to go to hell is endangering to the teller of that same outcome. Since we are selfish beings, the offer of salvation appeals to us in our finite nature. Organized religion appeals to the lazy who would have someone else read their bible for them and then tell them what they are to believe and do. I prefer to be a free thinking believer of Jesus Christ the Saviour of all mankind. There is a beginning; we all agree to that. And everything else and I add in emphasis everything else; is conjecture from both camps.
May…
The Lord bless and keep you;
The Lord make His face shine upon you,
And be gracious to you;
The Lord lift up his countenance upon you,
And give you peace.
Hello Bruce,
Touching story. As I have mentioned before, I don’t doubt that you experienced something that you originally could not understand. Successive happenings led you to start thinking in a certain direction. You are not the first person who experienced something they believe is somewhat profound in nature, nor will you be the last. When your attempts to find answers and you seem to see a pattern, you formulate a hypothesis. People are naturally pattern seeking individuals; it is hard-wired into our being – a product of evolution.
When certain events start to seem to confirm certain beliefs, people naturally stop looking for alternative explanations. This again is nothing new. When you accept an expalnation you have formulated because of apparent confirmation by subsequent events, without exhausting all possible explanations, it constitutes a logical fallacy which is known as confirmation bias. I may not have explained it very well, but you can look it up.
You have still not explained why you feel the need to legitimize your belief in god to me (and maybe to others) by using the dishonest psuedo-rationalizations which Christian apologists are so captivated by. I think you know full well what I’m referring to, because you have used them extensively in your arguments. I used the term “concocted” by others, because you most certainly did not invent of them.
Once again, I strongly advise you to look up the meaning of the words “theory,” “conjecture,” and “hypothesis.” And please don’t go to the the AIG or Discovery Institute websites; you won’t find any truth there. Rather try the Panda’s Thumb, or TalkOrigins or TalkReason.
Also find the video by Michael Shermer titled ‘The Baloney Detection Kit.” These resources should be a good start. Alternatively, you can ignore me and continue to believe what you believe; it’s probably much easier…
Lenny
Our beliefs are different, our countries are different, our political systems are different, our daily routines are probably similar. I found you on the blogosphere and I put my two cents into your rant was all. You have made yourself public domain and that’s how we started talking. Do you wish to discontinue our conversations?
Hi Bruce,
Sure, I rant, and I welcome criticism to my rants as I pointed out in the introduction to this page above:
You are welcome to continue to cristicise, de-mean or make fun of me. I really don’t mind. If you want to continue debate, all I ask is that you provide logical, rational responses. Emotionally charged rhetoric, and unscientific or pseudo-scientific claims make no impression on me. I also take a dim view to being assaulted with stuff that has already been debunked or disproved or ridiculed before, as you may have noticed. I will respond with the scorn and sarcasm that such dialogue deserves. Please come up with new stuff.
Lenny
I am not making fun of you nor am I looking to demean you nor do I feel the need to make fun of you to make myself feel better. That’s what bully’s do. There are three types of bullying physical, mental and intellectual arrogance. No matter the type they are all wrong and always inappropriate ways of communication.
So called intellectuals like feeling superior to others and bully their opponent interlocutor by getting personal and attacking their belief system as inferior to their own. In my opinion that is lowly and a sad way to try and win at any debate. Perhaps we need some rules if we are to continue. Rules that we both agree on and lets see whose evidence is best and or explained best. Of course we need to take into account the bias of both sides and recognize when the refuted evidence is actually debunked and not just claimed as that status.
What do you think you and I debate this age old debate one point at a time and agree upon a set of rules by our design or an existing method. Then lets see what is real and what is fantasy. Also we need to agree on the text and the antiquity of text as confirmed reliable by its historical accuracy. So perhaps a pre-debate before the actual debate to agree upon what reference material would be used and not defer from that agreed upon material.
What do you think?
Bruce,
I’ll accept that I’m maybe arrogant and somewhat intellectual. But bullying? I’ll maybe agree with forceful.
You need to understand that I won’t make a statement that I cannot back up. And I respond appropriately to attempts to sell bullshit. Bullshit is easily recognisable once you get used to applying the Baloney Detection Kit.
The rules are simple: come up with new stuff and don’t try to sell it by appealing to emotion and other un-scientific means. I’m not buying, unless it’s absolutely convincing.
Joking is fine; as long as it is not an ad hominem attack on recognised scientists. You can make jokes about me, but not any recognized scientist. Attack their work, not their person.
You cannot use quotes from the bible to prove anything in and outside the bible. Accredited contemporary sources only, with references. Any material from AIG, The Templeton Foundation,The Discovery Institute, actually any apologist organization is invalid.
And please don’t try to tell me something is true, because you personally experienced it. It won’t fly. Provide corroborating evidence that has been subjected to scientific scrutiny.
The last and perhaps most important rule: if it has not been subjected to scientific scrutiny, it is less than useless.
Lenny
The baloney detection kit, hmm we do not have those here in Canada perhaps you can send me one, how much are they?
No need to come up with anything the debate has been going for 2000 years or more and we need not reinvent the wheel.
To discount the bible as inaccurate is absurd as that would be one of my references.
Here’s my two cents I suggest we read the reference material each other gives in its entirety then we debate from each position. But I will not agree unless you agree to the bible as one of my reference materials. And there must be a limit on the amount of reference materials i.e. x number of books = 5, to allow each of us to read all the material.
I believe that a case could be made from that number including a dictionary, thesaurus, encyclopedia, etc. I suggest http://dictionary.reference.com/
And of course point by point one subject at a time and I would allow you to go first unless you would like me to go first. Time limits also need to be in effect like reading of material before the first question and then answer daily as we have been.
If you consider this then instead of just skimming the material of the other and discounting it you would have read it all. It would give us a better way to attack the argument by knowing your opponent and their material.
What do you think?
Hi Bruce,
“If you consider this then instead of just skimming the material of the other and discounting it you would have read it all.”
You mean like you do: that’s why you don’t know where to find the Baloney Detection Kit.
“No need to come up with anything the debate has been going for 2000 years or more and we need not reinvent the wheel.”
Really now, believers have stagnated for two thousand years; they have not advanced the debate at all. Stuck in the past, that’s it.
“To discount the bible as inaccurate is absurd as that would be one of my references.”
I’m still waiting for the proof of accuracy.
“Here’s my two cents I suggest we read the reference material each other gives in its entirety then we debate from each position”
Nice try, but I ain’t reading that fairy tale again (bible). I have too many important scientific books that I still need to finish, and I do have a full time job building a broadcast network for the 2010 FIFA World Cup.
The rules have been set. I actually need to add another. No circular reasoning: eg. “the bible is the word of god because god says so.” Or, “it is true because it says so in the bible.”
Actually here are the common fallacies of rhetoric and logic:
Common fallacies of logic and rhetoric
1. Ad hominem – attacking the arguer and not the argument.
2. Argument from “authority”.
3. Argument from adverse consequences (putting pressure on the decision maker by pointing out dire consequences of an “unfavourable” decision).
4. Appeal to ignorance (absence of evidence is not evidence of absence).
5. Special pleading (typically referring to god’s will).
6. Begging the question (assuming an answer in the way the question is phrased).
7. Observational selection (counting the hits and forgetting the misses).
8. Statistics of small numbers (such as drawing conclusions from inadequate sample sizes).
9. Misunderstanding the nature of statistics (President Eisenhower expressing astonishment and alarm on discovering that fully half of all Americans have below average intelligence!)
10. Inconsistency (e.g. military expenditures based on worst case scenarios but scientific projections on environmental dangers thriftily ignored because they are not “proved”).
11. Non sequitur – “it does not follow” – the logic falls down.
12. Post hoc, ergo propter hoc – “it happened after so it was caused by” – confusion of cause and effect.
13. Meaningless question (“what happens when an irresistible force meets an immovable object?).
14. Excluded middle – considering only the two extremes in a range of possibilities (making the “other side” look worse than it really is).
15. Short-term v. long-term – a subset of excluded middle (“why pursue fundamental science when we have so huge a budget deficit?”).
16. Slippery slope – a subset of excluded middle – unwarranted extrapolation of the effects (give an inch and they will take a mile).
17. Confusion of correlation and causation.
18. Straw man – caricaturing (or stereotyping) a position to make it easier to attack..
19. Suppressed evidence or half-truths.
20. Weasel words – for example, use of euphemisms for war such as “police action” to get around limitations on Presidential powers. “An important art of politicians is to find new names for institutions which under old names have become odious to the public”
Lenny
Rules are not set for we need to agree on reference material for without that we have nothing to talk about. Only published material and limit of 5 published books each.
If you agree to that then we need only give our material and decide on who will go first. As I said already you may go first and we must not digress and stay point by point one subject at a time.
So within every debate I have ever been in there has always been a panel of peers judging the proceedings. I suggest three impartial persons that do not lean one way or the other.
What do you think?
Hi Bruce,
I don’t really care what material you use, as long as you stick the rules of critical thinking and avoid the logical fallacies listed above.
Another thing, I’m not getting suckered into reading any religious material you propose, be it 5 or 50. You can use it by all means and I will comment, based on the merits of the particular reference you use from the material. Like I said before, I have a full time job and I have plenty of scientific material to get through. You are free to make a statement and back it it up with whatever material you want. I will in tuen use whatever material I deem necessary to debate your assertion.
Your proposal of time limits therefore also does not suit me. I don’t do this for a living – for me it’s a labor of love and a matter of principle; I’m not interested in winning over any coverts to any non-religious cause. The debate should be allowed to take as much time as possible because this is also not a suitable medium for the type of debate you are proposing.
If you are in agreement, then I will create a separate post just for the purposes of debating a specific topic. I will work out the logistics.
Lenny
Sure thing buddy. What’s the post called, lets do it…
Hey Bruce,
It’s your show, you decide what the topic should be, and we’ll take it from there…
Just remember the rules about logical fallacies: it applies to the topic too.
Lenny
Thought you were gonna start new thread?
Lets call it the “Lenny and M.A.C. Show” and send me the link (you can find my email by clicking on my name). I’ll be in and out of the studio for the next couple of months recording my new project “Bad Christian” but can definitely work a good debate into my schedule. I also have a day job too btw.
Lets make the first topic “Is There a God?”
And I guess I’ll go first?
Hey Lenny,
Might I ask what kinds of questions you asked your priests or religious teachers that they couldn’t answer rationally or satisfactorily? I’m on a quest to poke holes in what I believe. If I can’t find the answers then I need to really rethink on some things.haha
On another note, I like your pictures and I was wondering if you were going upload some more soon.:)
Also, you give a brief description about your past experiences with religion, but what’s your life like now? Do you have hopes and dreams? Anything big you’d like to accomplish? Places you want to visit? Favorite food and music? What’s your career or one that you want to have? From what I’ve read from your other posts, you seem to really enjoy life.
Hello again Amanda,
I’m not sure which religion you follow, if any. I used to follow the Hindu religion which has some of the strangest rituals. For instance, I asked the priests why they would walk around a temple for a certain number of times on different holy days, and they could not give a logical answer. Also, why wearing black clothes to religious festivals was taboo. There were many others such as why do people fast, make sacrificial offerings etc. The answers were always caged in superstition. The same applies to the rituals and practices of other religions as well.
As far as the photographs are concerned, I have far too many and am always in a dilemma over which ones to choose. I will put up a few more at some stage…soon.
My life has changed quite dramatically since I started pacticing critical thinking. I fear very little, because fear is based on superstition – this means I enjoy much more freedom than I did before. I have taken up new hobbies such as photography, videography, and blogging. I now read scientific literature voraciously – you see I had stopped reading for many years before this. I have become much more involved in charity work than before. I quit smoking… overnight. I want to teach…and learn.
I am enjoying my job much more than I ever did, as I’ve dicovered a new creativity that I never had before. I was given the opportunity to, and have been working for the last few years on the biggest project in my career – building the Broadcast and IT&T network for the FIFA Soccer World Cup to be held in South Africa in 2010.
I love to travel; I’ve been to Canada, the USA, France. My dream is to still visit places like Machu Pichu, Egypt, Tibet, Japan, Alaska (Arctic Circle, some parts of Europe. I am fascinated with ancient civilizations.
There are some minor consequences: since I gave up religion, I have become estranged from friends who were once very close. But, I have grown closer to my own immediate family. I have made new atheist friends though.
Enough of blowing my own trumpet. If you’re really serious about “poking holes in your beliefs” then I wish you well. You will find out things that are not always pleasant and most times, downright unpalatable. The truth can be very ugly. But highly satisfying when you discover it. Welcome to the world of learning…
Lenny and others,
If you have read The Reason for God, Timothy Keller, what do you think about his writing and the book’s content?
Hi Craig
Tim Keller is just one of many Christian apologists and his so-called intellectual arguments for belief are no more compelling than all the others. What’s worse is his arrogance about Christianity being the only true religion.
Hey Lenny,
You’re funny, cutting and fun to read. Probably damned to hell, but if so, I hope we’re in the same neighborhood.
My favourite of your listed quotes is : “Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool”- Voltaire
I hope you don’t mind me linking, but for those of you boys and girls interested in more quotes, check out http://richarddawkins.net/quotes.
Also, for articles and publishings on secularism, please check out http://www.infidels.org, it has loads of resources. If you have the time, run a search for “Ghosts”, you’ll find a text article entitled, “The Ghosts” written in 1877 by Robert Green Ingersoll.
I found it moving, and still terribly relevant 133 years later.
Cheers.
Hey jdant,
Thanks for the kind words; don’t get that too often here. There’s a very telling reason why ordinary people are more bitter about my non-belief than god itself…
If there really is a hell, surely it would be home to the most interesting and wonderful people who have ever lived…and died.
Thanks for the links; I will check them out and add them to my favorites.
The internet is amazing; we are the first generation where almost the entire world has full access to the entire world. So we can find the answers. We are learning more and more and our minds are starting to speed up.
Before our time they didn’t have this so people just went with the flow.
Religion will fall! It’s crumbling all around me, and your sight is just one of many proofs of that.
If those Gods were true, than those Gods must have f*#ked up because just look at the world.
WAKE UP PEOPLE and break through your little bubble!
Love and peace to all
Hi Darren,
Yes, this should be the true age of enlightenment, what with all the information available so freely. I do believe that religion will crumble entirely, but not any time soon. There are still far too many clerics and politicians who find it’s usefullness for controlling the masses, so convenient.
And Oh yes, peace and love, peace and love…this sorry world could do with so much more peace and love.
Lenny,
I can only hope your words create ripples powerful enough to go around the world a million times over. Without people like you this world has no hope.
Good on you mate.
You got my full support
Hi Darren,
There are many people all over the world creating waves of reason and rationality which are slowly knocking over the ships of superstition which have been anchored for too long in the same spot out of fear. You support will make bigger waves which we will need for there are super-tankers out there…
Since the 1st January this year a dream of mine came true, and that was to open a food business that would become 100% self sustainable, and what followed was a feeling of love and peace so powerful I could only describe as being divine, and it’s only manifesting.
Just yesterday I had a feeling of happiness so powerful all my students wanted to know my secret, so I told them everything, they walked out of the class a different person and to my surprise most of them could really relate to what I was saying, they just needed a spark. last night I suddenly started to feel strange, not sad not happy I can’t describe but anyway today when I woke up it was the same so I took a walk in the park to clear my mind and what came is as follows!
When my ancestors came to Australia they met the aboriginal and they murdered, slaughtered, raped and almost wiped out an entire culture, and a culture that had survived for tens of thousands of years (respect). In the eyes of the Aboriginals they would have thought they were demons. After all the women that were raped, they had their children STOLEN and forced to learn Christianity. And then I was thinking it was not just Australia this took place! North America and Africa just to name a two more and I wondered WHY! And then it came to me! RELIGION is the prime cause for all the problems in the world today.
And the truth is very clear to me, and I can only say FUCK CHRISTIANITY AND FUCK YOUR GOD!!!! THEY ARE ONLY REAL IN PEOPLES MIND, and if they are real they need to be sacked, I mean just look at the world today, they really FUCKED UP!
But in saying all that, they do create solace in the turmoil they create, therefor we can’t look down on any individual and I truly understand why people find a sense of community within a religion, but the problem is they say if you disobey then you will go to HELL (fear). I can remember clearly feeling that fear as a child!
I wont you to think about how much HELL on earth they have created over the past 500 years, think about all the humans that have been slaughtered and raped in the name of Christianity!!!! Think about how many cultures have been destroyed. They are the true evil and through fear and boundaries those people can’t speed up their mind enough to see the truth! BUT THEY WILL!!
Religion is the biggest con in human history!
Peace
That’s a copy of what I wrote on my Facebook today.
Sorry about all the F words I just felt REALLY angry, and after I let it out I felt MUCH better.
Every fire I light in my new Bistro will be dedicated to all the Aboriginals that lost their life to Christianity!
Hi Christian,
Some day I hope to join you at your Bistro to light a fire too…for all the people of Africa who were similarly duped. Now there’s a new religious threat sweeping through North Africa, driven by archaic beliefs born in the dessert, and a system of law that is an abomination to humankind. You probably know which threat I’m referring to…
Hi Christian,
I think you have it pretty much summed up…
Christian,
It’s not Christianity that is wrong it’s religion. Believing in God is not wrong the evidence of God is all around us. A beautiful sunrise/sunset, the smell of herbs, spice and incense.
People are miracles if you knew all the things that can go wrong in the birth process that doesn’t that in itself is a miracle. Here is the synoptic version of what happened that makes good people hate God.
Once upon a time there was this little Roman Emperor named Nero. You know the guy that played the fiddle while Rome burned. Nero wanted to rename Rome under his name and started the fire. He blamed the Christians for the fire and wholesale persecution started. With thousands and thousands of Christians dying for something they never did. Then about 250 years later along came another Emperor named Constantine. Who was best known for being the first Christian Roman Emperor. Under Constantine Christianity moved from a persecuted belief to a persecuting religion literally overnight.
Then about 1200 years later along came a simple German monk named Martin Luther who started the great reformation and the split from the Roman Catholic church. Protestantism was born. Fast forward to today 2010 there are currently 38,000 Christian denominations that are not supported by scripture yet they exist.
It’s not believing in God that is the problem it’s other men wanting to control you through their supposed superior relationship with God. If someone chooses to believe or not believe in God then they should search themselves for why. If it is because you are angry at what men have done in history in the name of God. And that is your basis for being atheist/agnostic then you are a fool and have become like the very men you hate.
And just to let you know peoples, that was the direct feeling from the spirits and It really took it’s toll as it was my first healing. I saw and felt a hate I hope upon no man for the rest of time!
Hi Bruce,
All around is the evidence of Nature.
Many things do go wrong in the birth process. Sometimes it’s natural, sometimes it’s induced. There’s no mircacles involved.
Nice story you have there, but you omit to inform us how Christianity came about (I’m talking about the real origins, not the biblical tales). Christianity was just another ideology born from the melting pot of other ideologies that were already in existence at the time, or long before. Ideologies are not truths…
Martin Luther was a racist right wing bigot who espoused anti-Jewish sentiments. The less said about him, the better. Protestantism was born…and the world has been sorry ever since…
I am angry that men refuse to (or are incapable of) think(ing) critically… and I’m angry that other men use this weakness to enslave them/their minds to perverted ideologies.
Perspective is the question.
Feel.
First of all I apologize on behalf of the above ‘Christain’ for the rawness of his remarks. After reading and accepting your thoughts and examples I have refined my thinking and developed a new hypothesis:
It is not Christianity that is at fault.
Christianity is in essence a beautiful concept. As most religions are, i think you will find. The essence is LOVE. Love one another. Love the earth, it is a divine gift!!!
The problem with the world now is that they are confused and in most cases outright brainwashed by ALL of these Christian denominations that Christianity itself, in its essence has become blurred and tainted.
Can I not be forgiven for having a perspective that has miraculously awakened on this planet, for thinking, believing and feeling a greater sense of divine energy?? This awakening, I believe comes from the core. Everything has a core of energy with polar forces.
The link between the core of our galaxy down to the core of an atom and the relationship the both have with each other. Alike the energy and life force given by the great central sun, just as our sun gives to our Earth. Some believe this was translated in to Christianity as: God gave his son(sun?!?) to give direction, guidance and love to the people.
Christianity is simply a denomination of the divine energy of our galaxy and the universe alike.
The Earth NEEDS us NOW! What is important now is not the colour of your skin or the powers of your god. What is important is that we all come together as one to live with the earth as it is intended. The Earth is our god and we ourselves have great power, and with a positive mind it is capable of great things. But if many minds adopt the same way of divine (call it awareness), a connection with the earth and everything around them, together we can pass the greatest task EVER set. Ironically we set it for ourselves…
The job of repairing humanity:
FACT: 75% of all human population don’t have money to put food in the refrigerator (that’s if they could afford one)
FACT: The world’s problem stem from money and the machine it is run through, economy.
The greed, the senseless profit in murder and the way people are led to believe that this is acceptable. It is NOT.
FACT: The television is the most influential form of education. It is controlled by the media and censored by various agencies to ultimately influence our thoughts by regulating the material we are exposed to.
Therefore we are ultimately being numbed down and disconnected from the real issue, the source of true happiness, by distraction. This destruction is motivated entirely by greed and consumption. And it’s growing exponentially with devastating consequences.
The only option is change.
We can however forgive OURSELVES for the way we have behaved, because like a child we must learn from our mistakes.
THE TIME IS NOW!
Please take a moment to accept my message and I wish for you to let it process and ponder a little.. Does it not seem that the core of everything, the energy we should be in touch with is the Earth’s. Love it, Feel its love and giving. Always remember to give back!
Love can replace all money and heal a dying world as if it were a sudden miracle. Does that not sound like a message every prophet and savior of most religious faiths have in common. Does it not reflect the powers that your God might have? Is it not possible that in the past when these holy books were written the human mind was not nearly as fast and developed as apposed to our current speed of thought and over time the message has been blurred or simply misinterpreted from the beginning. We are now aware.
NOW we have the knowledge. NOW we have the evidence. NOW we must change our ways and learn from our mistakes.
Be at one with the Earth, be at one with the people. They are your family, like it or not, simple as that. We are all brothers and sisters in the greatest family of all. Once we accept that and learn to respect one another, then money may be allowed to dissolve. A healing will occur and a new consciousness will be born.
The harmony of unconditional love is not an impossible notion.
And please believe me that I was a skeptic when I first awoke to this way of thinking. But once I accepted the idea for what it was I discovered its true beauty.
I now feel the effect this positive energy born from my own consciousness is having on my life and the way it resonates around me.
It is easily describable by saying “things are… just better!”
The energy is having effects in all my environments and is reciprocated.
People have become more comfortable around me and look to me for council with increasing regularity in the recent past.
The effort that is required to start… Take the first step towards achieving a beautiful harmonious world, was awoken in my consciousness as the above author “Christian” on the 1st of Jan this year.
I have been given a gift as we have all been given different gifts or talents. I am (without being arrogant) perfectly prepared and have the perfect vessel to carry the message across to the people. It is not through some publicity stunt or senseless violence.
It is through the establishment of humble community that will prove the truth: that it is possible. And sadly seeing is believing… So not until the message is clear and the truth is evident will we all see the big picture. As I said the evidence is there and people are opening their eyes for the first time. This is exciting!!!
Balance. Harmony. Respect. Love. Divine
Does it not sound like heaven on Earth?
And it IS possible. But only together will we succeed.
And to be fair… Everyone should be entitled to there own beliefs.
But all I ask is, look in to your heart and hear your self consciousness. Do this while trying to let almost all preconceived notions behind. The key to seeing something in its entirety and true, honest light is to eliminate any bias and allow the mind to go blank. Ready to start again. Become aware. Feel what is right.
We have to leave this destructive path we have created. This is certain. It is evident globally, even scientifically proven that Humanity is accelerating toward extinction. If we are not even smart enough to save ourselves from extinction, well it would be debatable to say that we are “the smartest beings on Earth.”
It is time to let go of our egos and make peace with the natural order of things. Reconnect.
Final Thought……
It is not the world that is going to end. It will always be here.
Humanity on the other hand?????
You get the picture.
And thank you to those who took the time to read this. Your energy is appreciated. I am honoured to share.
Most humbled,
Allan.
Hi Allan
You do have some interesting ideas and I share most of your sentiments. I especially like your pagan approach to spirituality – being one with the earth and nature. I read a poem a long time ago which inferred that pagans are much closer to god, really understand what god is, (assuming he did exist off course) than those who claim to be the most religious – I can’t remember the title or author though.
Ahhhhh Herb’s and spices, don’t forget about the magic of the sunflower too Bruce, standing very proud for all to see, and so they should be, being the second largest flower in the world, I bet it’s got infinite stories to tell. I can tell you one. We just purchased some land and plan to grow I spouse a hundred or so, My mother my cousin (Allan) and I will need the Seeds for Bread, Oil and bird feed, not to mention how beautiful that site will be but the best of all it holds the key to set our kids free, through this how our kids can clearly see ahhhhhh peace and love to all
Lenny I can only hope we meet some day and no offense attended by using an alias, but Colin Andrews said we must keep our SENSE of humor.
Allan’s always been the educated one, Saved me a lot time.
Wow.. the power of the internet!
Big thanks to my mother she is a true warrior, one of many sent/or I should say seeded by the Divine Feminine, also it’s time for all Indigo and crystal children to rise, you will see the truth just live the now clear you mind!
I have never wrote ANY sort of words like that on my own before and can only say that was a direct message from Mother Earth! And she loves all of you so much, give her some love back!
Hi Darren,
Australia is not that far away from South Africa. I have some family over there, and friends in NZ too. Maybe one day soon…
Allan,
There is one fact you left out of your post. The fact that there are well over 2.5 billion professing Christians in the world. If they all gave $5 per month to ending poverty in the world that would equal $12.5 billion per month or $150 billion per year.
Lets use your fact of 25% can afford food and the refrigerator and forget about what God you worship and they all gave $5 per month. That equals 1.65 billion people giving $5 per month = $8.25 billion per month or $99 billion per year. We have the ability but not everyone has the desire to stop the senseless cruelty of hunger.
So we must all chip in where we can…
Understood Bruce.
That itself has been a practiced way of contribution, but with money as always the essence of truly giving is tainted and people further up in the heir achy WILL and have taken advantage of this. Effectively contaminating the cycle of giving and receiving.
It is time to give love. It is much more precious and effective than money could ever be.
However it appears to require too much effort. Don’t be afraid.
The notion that you can buy time and happiness with money is false.
That’s right Allan, The only way you will receive the key to the Divine is granted through pure unconditional love in one’s heart.
Don’t forget that the heart was born before the brain.
PLEASE people, does that not make sense?
Bruce
I was just wondering what those 2.5 billion Christians in the world could do if they suddenly decided to dedicated their life to making things right, for all the generations to come. Like I have done.
WOW that would be a sight to see, I can only hope!!!!!!
LAPTA
Allan
Knowing fully that kingdoms of the earth want to be greased for allowing food and support to be transported through their borders is part of the equation.
Lets say only 10% makes it through that is still a great portion that was not there previously. To take the attitude that it will never make it so we should not contribute only stands to augment the problem.
Consider the words of Martin Luther King Jr.
All progress is precarious, and the solution of one problem brings us face to face with another problem.
Plus people can’t survive on love alone but it is needed to be able to give in the first place…
Ok Bruce, thank you for giving your time.
Peace and love to all
Yes you are right in a sense there Bruce.
Most people can’t. It will only be in the world that I create for myself! For we are all creators.
Darren and Allan
Your welcome I feel honored to have had this brief conversation with you. And I am sure if we ever sat to break bread together it would be a wonderful experience.
May…
The Lord bless and keep you;
The Lord make His face shine upon you,
And be gracious to you;
The Lord lift up his countenance upon you,
And give you peace.
The words of Divine will always shine!!
And Bruce if you want to eat real bread made with love, your always welcome to meet with us at Earth’s Bistro, opening soon just stay tuned!!
Dear Bruce W. Moar aka M.A.C.,
Today I was thinking about your words, and what you have been taught. The only way I could really understand what your trying to say is if you tell me about you. where you come from, where do you see yourself in the future and your children for the next lets say 500 years or even for . And what are you doing these days to reach that goal!
Who knows, you might even convert me. Same goes of cause.
I think this earth and the people on it have had valuable lessons to learn!
LAPTA
Lenny,
I’ve never been on a blog before, and want to thank you for providing this site for all of us to share “our own little world” so to speak and what we have been taught.
It’s refreshing to say the least especially because my wife is away and I don’t watch tv.
It really is a good place for people to let out their true feelings or points of view.
And to say you do it out of love, I can only thank you again.
I got a question for you I ask all my brothers.
Two choices.
Live life with all the money and power you wanted in the world, but die a virgin?
Or, just live the way you are?
Hi Darren
Having all the power and money in the world, but being forced to remain sexually frustrated would drive anyone totally mad.
I prefer to live just the way I am; enough money to provide a comfortable life; the infrequent chances to sow some wild oats.
Yes, I think so too you would most likely go insane or cause your own death, so we are born with a gift so divine, no money or power can take from us. So why are we so discontent?
Yet even the religions tried to take it too away from some, in recent years, and looking through my bubble it is only recent years.
I know we all know there is something more than the 3d world lets us know there is. I was aware of it. We just can’t be alone floating in space especially these days with our awareness and we are more conscious of the earth and the universe.
So many people just can’t be wrong about that. So about three years ago I was thinking quite deeply on this subject of god, (what a stained word it has become).
I thought, (never read) how can I access this divine so many sort after? and the power it will hold, and then I thought, WOW what a power it would be. One with such power must really know what to do with it for it could create anything. So then on I was looking for the key, I was walking in the park as I do so often and looking at it’s beauty amongst this chaos I live in (Centennial Park Sydney), it suddenly came to me, that one with such power would ONLY have a pure heart of unconditional love for EVERYTHING. Through this YOU WILL receive the key and find your place on this earth, and the best of all we are all creators so we all can find our place on this earth as so many TRY to do today.
If you find your place you will receive the key and feel content. (divine to say the least). And VERY humble.
It takes a lot of practice living these days with pure unconditional love, with this love one may often cry but through these tears one only gets stronger. And trust me it’s a small price to pay.
Love and peace to all.
“EVERYTHING organic”
(¯`v´¯)
`*.¸.*´…Endless
¸.•´¸.•~♥♥♥~•.~
(¯`v´¯)
`*.¸.*´…Unconditional
¸.•´¸.•~♥♥♥~•.~
(¯`v´¯)
`*.¸.*´…Love
¸.•´¸.•~♥♥♥~•.~
For Each Other, Our Planet and All that Share it.
Hi Tipsy McStagar,
In order for me to answer with clarity I must ask;
To which words do you refer?
Converted to what?
Perhaps an email would be better suited to this conversation…
Hi Bruce
The words in “Upper case”
May…
The LORD BLESS and KEEP you;
The Lord make His FACE SHINE upon you,
And be GRACIOUS to you;
The Lord lift up his CONTENTEDNESS upon you,
And give you PEACE.
I feel that if Lenny can share/give his life with us, so should we for he was the creator of this site and so we would have never met.
It will be the only way all or nothing no private emails, I can send many of them if I want.
I can tell many more how I feel on here and so that’s why I’m here.
And forget about “Convert” please, it was a little immature to make that comment.
I’m still young.
LAPTA
Alrighty youngster Tipsy. The whole of that saying is considered a benediction, a blessing to the hearer. And was commanded by God to Moses to tell Aaron that this is how you are to bless the people. When we talk with blessing to each other we change the rules of this world. I believe that God spoke everything into existence and that we must master ourselves by mastering our tongues. Even if you do not believe in God as I do; it is still considered good manners to bless another.
So lets tackle your capitalized pieces.
The LORD BLESS and KEEP you; – The LORD God wants to BLESS you by giving you prosperity and to KEEP you from harm. Consider that prosperity can mean more than personal gain and material goods.
The Lord make His FACE SHINE upon you, – This is the epitome of what we are as people, something we all need. When our parents/guardians, teachers/instructors approved of us and shined their smile and love upon us, there is no better moment. To be approved by God would one up even those moments.
And be GRACIOUS to you; – Grace is undeserved kindness that goes hand in hand with unconditional love. You must surely love another and consider them highly in order to show grace. Consider the hungry grace is needed to feed the hungry of this world.
The Lord lift up his COUNTENANCE upon you, – The countenance of the Lord is peace and well-being that is lasting and eternal not temporal.
And give you PEACE. – Peace is the procurement of all things needed for well-being, prosperity and unconditional love.
We are also commanded to love God with all our heart, all our soul and all our mind and to love each other as we love ourselves. The enigma of this is that God will call us liar if we say we love Him but not each other. Because we can see each other but we cannot see God.
Solution – Learn how to love and show grace by appreciating others…
Bruce
Thank you,
Yet still I can’t TRULY understand.
Please refer back to the original !!!!
Dear Bruce W. Moar aka M.A.C.,
“Today I was thinking about your words, and what you have been taught. The only way I could really understand what your trying to say is if you tell me about you. where you come from, where do you see yourself in the future and your children for the next lets say 500 years or even for . And what are you doing these days to reach that goal!”
If not, I know why!
LAPTA
Dear Bruce W. Moar aka M.A.C.,
All the people that have found their place on this earth can only laugh at what your saying Bruce.
This earth can only sustain 1 billion. Some say 250,000 would be ideal.
I can only recommend that you break through that little bubble and start doing some research of your OWN.
DEEEEEP down in your heart, you know whats right and whats wrong.
love and peace to all
Let me correct that “some say 250 Million would be ideal”.
Bruce, I just crunched some numbers and what I found was quite amazing to say the least. http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
I can only say your God will save the Earth. Thank you, and they will serve a purpose.
The people of the new world will remember the mistakes made in the past, that’s the only reason I can think of WHY did it have to be this way!
I may be wrong, but that’s just whats on my mind.
LAPTA
Peace and grace to you little Tipsy…
Brother,
Please email me, for Facebook or catch up. I wont to show you your mother ship growing.
You don’t know this but you gave me the finale dot of them all, through the correct words you chose I could see the truth. And it was really clear to me.
And I also want to keep you in the loop (Earth’s Bistro) so you can see true love in action.
Where there is no water we will create fire storms. So pumped bro.
Please terminate this MSG.
Hi Lenny,
I’ve really enjoyed your blog and your quotes.
Good responses to people too!
Keep it up and know that there are some of us that believe as you do and enjoy life so much more without the fear of superstition and the guilt of religion overhanging.
~Blessings~ M
Hi Michele,
Thank you so much for the encouragement. There is hope for mankind, because of people like you, but we need more people to open their minds to a world without superstition and fear, if only to make it that much safer…
Another thought…Some of the greatest minds of science have been believers in God, (Galileo, Kepler, Boyle, Pasteur, Joule,and Newton, to mention a few…so, what do you think is behind the attitude that brilliant thinkers couldn’t possibly have objective reasons for their views about God? Second question, if you don’t mind…Do you think it’s rational to rule out, before considering the evidence, the possible involvment of God in creating the universe? I really am interested in hearing what you think…Thank you
Hello Michelle (from the month of May),
Have you considered why scientists from this era professed a belief in a god? Could it be because of the repressive religious era they lived in? Could it be that they were just keeping up appearances to avoid persecution?
How many real scientists today profess a belief in god? Could it perhaps have something to do with the fact we have more freedoms in the modern era?
Anyway, no matter how many people (famous or not) believe something, it still does not make it true. Belief does not make something true.
What evidence is there for a divine creator? None whatsoever, There is merely conjecture, based on religious writings (and the warped ideologies of the clergy) that itself have not been proved to be the work of some divine entity. However the scientific postulations have considerable evidence backing it up, even though we may still be far from knowing the details of how it all happened. But theer are experiments in quantum or particle physics being carried out right now in the Large Hadron Collider at CERN which promises to provide some of the answers. We just have wait and see.
In the interim, I have no reason to believe that the universe was created by some cosmic magician, because there is no evidence for it.
BTW: There is extensive evidence of Galileo’s persecution by the Church. Here is just one resoource: The Persecution of Galileo. You can research the others. Perhaps do a little more research on the other scientific individuals you mentioned; you’ll be surprised about their real beliefs.
Just to let you know that there are two “Michelles’. I am the most recent May posts…not to confuse anyone:)
You have a very nice blog. keep it up dude! rock and roll 😀
Thanks dude, you have a cool blog yourself…
On the question of why so many of the great minds of the past where Christians. While it is hard to know whether they doubted, since to express such a doubt would be in those days to invite persecution, the evidence seems to be that many of them where sincere and devout in their beliefs. It is not only that the church was all-powerful then, or how little was known and understood about the beliefs of non-christians, but it also seems to me that prior to 1859, no matter how smart you were, it was impossible to understand how all the order in the universe could be anything other than the design of a creator. As scientific knowledge grew, many came to see that the stories of the bible couldn’t possibly be literally true, yet they still could not see how the universe could exist without a creator (these were the deists, like Thomas Jefferson). Only after Darwin made clear, with his groundbreaking and meticulous research, the mechanism by which order can come from apparent chaos (random variation + natural selection) has there been an explanation that fits the facts we see around us that has no need for us to imagine a god that created it.
Hi pog throgmorton
Thanks for that insight. You’ve answered Michelle much better than I could.
Hi Lenny, I’m glad I found your site. Aside from my interest in South Africa (I live in a third world country and felt close to your country) I also have no religion or concept of God. I just commented on one of your posts. Thank you for sharing those quotes. It’s interesting how believers get easily aggravated by them. While I don’t agree on the heirarchy of religion and god, I am very interested in their behavior, logic and reasoning. I live in a christian community, every belieiver is different, which I know for sure you agree with.
I don’t blame the book or the scriptures. I have studied them in college (Roman Catholic to be exact) I find it amusing. Violent, sexual and enlightening. It reflects humans so much. I say this because I’m a bookworm. I like what I can get from them and use it to make myself a better person for the world and the future. It’s sad that believers use the bible only to slap those who have different beliefs.
They claim to be victims and yet they sondemn those who don’t believe. They claim equality but continuously separate the rights of man to woman just because men have penises and women can get pregnant. They claim unity, but look at how many religion we have now. They claim humbleness, but they evidently proclaim their self-importance because they have god to back them up.
The minority of believers are good folks, I know that for a fact. But their goodness does not come from their religion, it’s just who they are and how they think. Relgious folks have to accept the fact that not everyone needs to believe in God. They claim of acceptance and respect, yet they refuse to do that.
Hi pao
Actually, I am convinced that the majority of believers are good people, not the minority. But you do make a good point about their goodness not coming from religion. This is so true. I wish they could see that too…
Your religion of science and logic, if I may call it that, is quite interesting and has made me more mindful of the nature of things especially of the human kind. I’m a christian and I am fascinated and curious by the conviction you have to atheism as duly notable by your well constructed arguments against the different members of the faith who have subsequently left their egregious opinions on your page in good measure. My only question is exactly what spurred you to leave the faith(your biography was very interesting) after all your encounters with it through your life? I myself was brought under a very strict religious diet and I too have come to question its value and truth although not completely departing from what I have believed to be true for years. Merely I am in search for a little more than what I know already…
Hi Alex C
My religion of science and logic? Science and logic is not a religion, nor will it ever be. And another thing, I don’t have a conviction to atheism. Atheism is not a religion either. It merely references my position on a belief in a supernatural entity. Really simple.
I left the faith because I committed the cardinal sin of opening my mind to reality. Yes, that’s a cardinal sin for the religious – a closed mind is one of the pre-requisites for religiosity. Sound harsh? The truth is mostly unpalatable.
If one starts questioning, while adopting a skeptical attitude at the same time, it is impossible to then also “keep the faith.” It’s quite simple.
If you have started on the path of questioning, really questioning, and if you’re serious about searching for “scientific” answers to life’s questions, then I’m afraid your’re going to find a great deal of ugliness and bitter-tasting truths. Yes, the alternative answers that reality proposes are not very nice, but that’s the way the truth is.
You will find this search also very unsatisfying, because the more you learn the more you realise how little you actually know. The great philosopher Socrates is known to have said that all he really knew, was the extent of his own ignorance.
I hope I haven’t discouraged you with my harsh words. I wish you well on your search.
Yo jesus, you say what?
P.S. Nice job you’re doing!
Hi, nice to meet you !
Very nice information.
I found your blog on google and read a few of your other posts. I just added you to my Google News Reader. Keep up the awesome work Look forward to reading more from you in the future.
Its strikes me that your ‘scholarly’ review of religious text is amateur at best. You seem to think that you can just wake up one day (oh after being associated with some religious institute for a few years) and decide that you have the ability to interpret text. It might surprise you to know that English grammar is not one of the key skills in religious studies. Your approach seems to be blame centric without honestly consider the texts. Buddhism is a classic conclusion of the one line philosophy student – A few (admittedly profound but none the less random) quotes do NOT a world view make.
Hi Mr MPhil,
I don’t seem to recall making any claim that I reviewed any religious texts in a “scholarly” fashion. Kindly point out where.
It might suprise you to know that I don’t need a Masters or Doctorate in Philosophy or any other field to know when I’m reading bullshit – the kind your religious texts assault us with.
My approach is simple – expose the bullshit.
I think I can relate to you, somewhat.. I also grew up in a Hindu household but I was lucky enough to have a mom who questioned all the weird rituals. She would read books on alternative ideology which through a sort of osmosis passed to my sister and me. She didn’t force us to believe in anything – her only requirement was for us to be happy. It gave us the freedom to explore and not accept everything that you’re told (e.g. “pray before 12am facing a certain direction or God will smite your ass”).
But there was also a drawback to growing up in that kind of environment. I became a firm believer in judging a person by their character and their actions and not their race or religion. So this set me up for a bit of shocker for when I was old enough to really see and interact with people on a deeper level. You’d meet the nicest people who would think you’re a lovely person but deep down they’re thinking “oh, yes – you will go to hell, my dear”. I still cannot understand why people would believe in this being that would condemn you to eternal torture just because you didn’t declare your undying devotion to him – he is all-powerful but jealous at the same time. Huh?
In fact, if I was born into a religion like that I’d probably denounce it purely on the basis that I could never support something or someone that would happily kill my best friend who may be the sweetest, gentlest person all because they don’t believe in you. I will never understand that.
Anyway, thanks for an interesting website, I’ll be logging on now and then just to assure myself that there are people out there who aren’t afraid to look at things from a different point of view.
Hi Verusha,
Thanks for the feedback. Your mom sounds like an amazing person. You can thank her for giving you a shot at real freedom.
BTW: You sound like a normal, well-balanced, all-round good person. You’re proof that we don’t get our morality from religion…
Hey friend can i publish some paragraph of your article on my little blog of university.I have to publish a good articles out there and i really think your post Fits best into it.I will be grateful to give you an source link as well.I have two blogs one my own and the other which is my college blog.I will publish some part in the university blog.Hope you do not mind.
Sure, go ahead…
“Men become civilized, not in proportion to their willingness to believe, but in proportion to their readiness to doubt”.
Sadly, today it seems to me that more and more of us, especially young people who are supposed to be the first ones to question, are going to the opposite.
I came to your site by quite an accident. But thank you, free-thinker.
Hi Elizabeth,
Glad you stopped by. It’s always nice to get confirmation that there are indeed many other free thinkers out there.
Dear Lenny,
I am a busy college student so I’ll keep my remarks short, but I came upon your blog by mistake but found it to be quite interesting. I hope I’m not oversimplifying this but when you say, “I’m now a free-thinker, student of the sciences, art, ancient civilizations and history, politics, comparative religion and the human condition, anti-authority, libertarian,” I find it to be a logical fallacy. I’m not sure what religion you were, but as a Catholic Christian I do not find your remarks to be in conflict with Christianity. In Romans Paul states, “Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.” I believe that God calls us to test and discern our lives as I think you would agree with. He only calls us to have faith in his abilities not ignorance. He gave us brains for a reason, and while many “Christians” may make bad use of it, there are others that do not. Someone you might want to read up on is St. Augustine, who was greatly influenced by Plato and the simile of the light and the allegory of the cave. The Socratic search for truth is what we all seek and I believe Christ gives us that; he is the one that leads us out of the cave.
May God bless you and finish the good work that he has started in you.
Sincerely,
Raul
Hi Raul,
In case you missed it, I’m not affiliated to any religion; I’m an atheist. And most, if not all of my remarks are in direct opposition/contrast to Christianity.
I’m puzzled about what logical fallacy you find in the brief description about myself . Could you perhaps elaborate.
I care not not what Paul or anyone else for that matter, says in the bible. It would require faith to believe anything contained therein; and if you read the many articles I’ve posted about the subject, you’ll see that I don’t care for, nor do I have any respect for faith whatsoever. I prefer the scientific method. There’s no evidence whatsoever that this book is divinely inspired, and all available evidence points to it being the work of common man.
We have a brain for a reason – to reason with. Accepting anything on faith is an insult to this organ, and in contradiction with the act of reasoning.
While I don’t pretend to know a great deal about his works, I have read up a bit on St. Augustine. While I respect his philosophical work [from an academic perspective], I’m not at all pleased about the influence he had on developing Christian doctrine.
I don’t believe that Christ gives us anything. Nada. Ultimately only “you” can lead yourself out of the cave. I’m of the opinion that fundamentalist Christianity intends keeping man forever in the cave.
While I appreciate the good wishes, it’s unecessary. Only living people can bestow “blessings” upon living people. I have yet to witness, or see proof that an invisible supernatural entity can perform that feat.
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Hi
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holy crap… oh… sorry did I say that out loud?!?!? hi lenny, what i meant to say was i have never, really never, seen such an interesting “about” posting, and that would include all (yes, i read them ALL) the comments subsequent to your original posting of sometime in 2008 or so… now it’s late and i must retire, but hopefully it won’t take hours to get through each and every page and post on your most interesting blog… i am invigorated to know that there are still critical thinkers alive and kicking, and i love the www for making so much interesting info and thought available… well, lenny, nice to meetcha, again… take care… glad you liked my humble blog too… 🙂
janet aka buddhakat
Hi Janet
Thanks, appreciated. I’m going to make time to reciprocate…
Cheers for now
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Greetings Lenny,
Your recent comment on Bernadette Muthien’s fb post made me laugh for awhile!… “10,000 years of religion has helped nobody. ‘Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.'” Since I am a peaceful person, I’m kind of amazed to find this so funny. I guess I needed some comic relief.
I have a different atheist friend that I have been encouraging to see if he will be open-minded enough to consider this amazing new possibility that maybe we aren’t alone, maybe we were created, and even maybe we were created as a race of “angelic humans” for a certain mission related to increasing our consciousness,and evolving towards greater unity & peace consciousness. This philosophy is summarized in the Voyager I relayed by Ashyana Deane. The Voyager II, second edition (100 pages added after 9-11 incidents) is more detailed. This material speaks about energy physics, and seems scientifically accurate. It mentions that there is a tiny particle that is in everything and that frequency is the glue that holds everything together, and makes things come into being. I am curious if you and your readers — both religious and non-religious — will take a look at it and see if this material isn’t at least believable, plausible.
It basically says that our DNA and I believe social, economic, physical structures have been undermined by anti-human forces, or beings. Beings who have agendas for “mind-control” and destruction of biological life on our planet.
It says that the guy on the cross was an imposter — and the goal was to fool humans. This material, from “our Guardians,” which are among unified peaceful cultures in the universe near us, say that all the religious leaders were meant to be teachers to lead us in a good direction, but the anti-life beings have distorted their messages.
If you think this message is “an earful” check out the second book!! It says that this is a time we must choose in which direction we will go after we die. Many “Christians” are currently choosing to take the path of endless reincarnations with more and more spiritual afflictions. Or, our professed Guardians say, there is the choice to voyage to the great unknown, towards more unity and love when we die.
Hi Linda,
I don’t condone violence myself. It’s just commentary on the absurdities of religion and politics.
Hi Linda,
I must apologise as I seem to have completely missed the second part of your comment as I was viewing the comment in a reduced window.
What you are describing is a typical example of what is known as psuedo-science. These books use a lot of scientific sounding terminology to describe ideologies that are anything but scientific.
I suggest you go to James Randi’s website The James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF) where more information is provided.
Happy debunking!
Hi Lenny came across your blog via M&G comments, just wanted to say ‘love your work’ and keep fighting the good fight. Greetings, Donovan Jackson.
Hi Donovan,
Thanks, your encouragement means a lot…
Can I just say what a relief to discover somebody who truly knows
what they are discussing online. You certainly understand how to bring a
problem to light and make it important. More and more people have to check this
out and understand this side of the story.
I was surprised that you aren’t more popular since you certainly have the gift.
In support of Lenny’s argument (his argument is based on reason and not on unsupported beliefs in the supernatural).
In a nutshell, religion is not based on reason but on faith, but faith does not advance knowledge it is the search for security not truth (my emphasis). The search for truth requires an open mind. Fear of death motivates most religious commitment and it’s alleviated by assurances of an afterlife. I know of a few people who just meander thru life mumbling of a better afterlife. We ‘sleep’ for billions of years and ‘awaken’ for a brief period of time (an average of 75 years) then we go back to sleep for all eternity. So we need to do something more useful in our lives for the better of mankind. The promise of an afterlife is inhumane. Belief in the continuation of your “soul” or consciousness after death is an empty promise. It devalues the one life that actually exists; the one we have now! Religion was originally a science and man’s first attempt to explain the world. It is an elaboration of a fundamental belief in magic, but magic and faith has a child-like rationality. Science takes care of the natural and religion of the supernatural. Eastern religion believe that Karma regulates the universe Western religion believe it’s a Supreme Being. Each group will show convincing arguments. Thus religion is any specific system of belief about a deity often involving rituals, a code of ethics, belief in the supernatural and a philosophy of life.
Isaac Asimov once said that if you inspect every bit of pseudoscience you will find a security blanket, a thumb to suck on and a skirt to hold. Stephen Hawkins took this a step further by stating, ‘Heaven is for those who are afraid of the dark!’ It seems that supernatural beliefs has become the raison d’être of religion and the only way to prove it is by denouncing certain areas of science. Creationism is based on faith, and not concrete evidence. Intelligent Design is not a “scientific alternative”. There is no science to it! The goal of science is to explain how conclusions are reached through empirical data; this can’t be done for Intelligent Design. There is no foundation of observation and experiment to support the claim of intelligent design. Proof from scripture is not conclusive evidence. Science, unfortunately, does not have all the answers but at least it’s striving towards a common goal to find these answers through research. There is nothing wrong with people feeling a need to socialize with others in common faith. It just seems that it serves only to benefit the congregation, and the particular religious sect. Each sect on earth has their own version of the human story, insisting that their teachings of God are correct and spread among the masses. Today large parts of ancient writings remain hidden in the realm of mythology while others became the foundation for religion. This is my rational argument and it’s not the work of the devil, or God influencing my thinking pattern to confuse me in order to test my faith. When we dismiss all the other possible gods (religions), yet settle for our own is this not the work of the devil? There are no gods or angels out there who will save us from our problems; we on our own. We have to help ourselves! We usually know in our hearts when something is wrong with an establishment, but we are conditioned to look the other way and to not only support the establishment, but to attack those who do not support it. It seems religion has become a cult with political power!
Currently we lack conclusive evidence about our origins. We can only speculate based on our current empirical evidence, but looking at the beauty of a flower and saying that there must be a supernatural entity involved is based on faith and faith alone.
🙂
If I was religious, I’d say “bless your little cotton socks”, but I’m not, so I’ll just say “well done, you!” 🙂
Thank you, and bless your cotton socks for being heathen too…
You’re most welcome and thank you, too. Keep up the good fight, as they say!
Wow, wonderful blog layout! How long have you been
blogging for? you make blogging look easy. The overall look of
your site is wonderful, as well as the content!
Thanks Verla, been blogging for close on 5 years.
Hi there! Do you use Twitter? I’d like to follow you if that would be okay. I’m undoubtedly enjoying
your blog and look forward to new posts.
Hi Wendi
Actually no, sorry. Twitter hasn’t appealed to me yet.
Hi there, all the time i used to check website posts here in the early hours in the morning, because i like to learn more
and more.
Hi Lenny,
In reply to your previous post..
You have missed to answer few of my question in my previous post!!!!!!
f you seriously believe in Big bang theory, can you please give explanation for the generation for that force which bring out big bang?
Have you read about six day war and check statistics?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War
Paul,
The 6-day war was just another war. What’s it got to do with the price of tomatoes? Are you a conspiracy theorist, who looks at things in hindsight and starts forming patterns out of coincidences?
Lenny,
Why do you say it is coincidences to whatever I tell you?
How can you say whatever happen in world, as written in bible is mere coincidences? Didnt your heart tells you that something needs to be looks around?
Hi Paul,
My heart just pumps blood, it doesn’t tell me anything. Rational thought forms in the brain.
Hi Lenny,
Thats a nice statement!! 🙂
Have you not come across a feeling, Sometimes , we feel like doing a mistake but deep inside something will say dont do it !!! I have felt like this many times. Thats where conscience come to picture, that is what i meant in my reply earlier.
Do you believe in love?
Hi Paul
What you’re describing is a naturl thought process – reasoning. It occurs in the brain, not “deep inside.” Love is a human physical emotion. You might as well ask me if I believe in hate or fear.
Paul,
If you’re referring to this:
“Do you believe in big bang theory? Do you believe that one fine day, a force is generated from nowhere and it is the reason for creation of earth? Because of that force, millions of stars are created and planets are aligned beautifully in the orbit and sun is kept in the centre to give light during day and earth kept in required distance away from the sun to maintain correct temperature for living. You believe it is one of the reasons for creation for millions of living being, plants on land and inside ocean? And each animal are created with their own organs and tissue with reproductive system, and food chain is maintained perfect.
Because of that earth is filled somehow by 1/3 water, which is perfect for earth?”
I chose not to answer because I’ve covered this before elsewhere, a few times. I’m not a cosmologist or physicist, so my explanation will not do justice to the many scientists who have worked in this area. I suggest you read up on it, as there are literally thousands of resources on the subject. The big bang theory is not a belief system. The evidence provided by the scientists is compelling, and hence I’m convinced until they come along with more compelling evidence. At any rate, the work being conducted at CERN at the moment in the Large Hadron Collider relating to the Higgs Boson particle seems to answer how “something can come from nothing” to put it crudely.
As for your idea of a perfect creation, that is totally false. The universe is actually hostile to life and borne out by the fact that in the vast universe, life only exists here on earth (as far as we know) because these conditions are the most ideal (as far as we know) to support carbon based life forms. Your idea of the perfect creation is like the analogy of a puddle of water looking around it and thinking that the hole that its in, was formed perfectly for it to rest in.
Hello Friend,
i asked about your belief on evolution of human from ancester.
How ancesters formed?
I have searched google, but couldnt get the answer. Can you share your links where you find that answer!
Hi Paul,
The formation of living organisms has got nothing to do whatsoever with evolution. Evolution only explains the development of simple organisms to more complex organisms. It does not explain how life started. The field that postulates how life started is known as abiogenesis. Look it up.
Congratulations I nominated you for the Shine On Awards 🙂
http://kmushbeauty.wordpress.com/2013/06/18/shine-on-award/
Thanks kmushbeauty, appreciated.
I am so sorry, because I do not write English very well and I would like to discuss with you.
I believe, that the only thing is important to be human. I think everybody has a wise part (I hope) and a silly part…the silly part is so easy…to believe in something, in somebody, who thinks for us, who decides for us. Is it not easy? The much more supersilly thing is, that many people think without being human, without tolerance and so war and hate has a chance.It could be a paradise without religion, but I think that way of being is too intelligent, too human, too tolerant, too free for all people in our world. I try to live in my little world and inside I am very free. 🙂 Have a good time and do not be angry about stupidity 🙂
Hi Birgit,
First, your English is pretty good. And second, yes it is just too easy to believe in all sorts of crazy things. But it’s just as easy to enquire and determine if what you believe has any merit.
Being skeptical, may not come naturally, but with work it becomes easier.
Cheers for now.
I would take this more seriously if you had correct grammar and your posts weren’t just a product of your opinion solely. You need to present facts and bring in counter arguments to show different sides of an issue.
Forgive me for thinking this was my blog, and that I was entitled to represent the knowledge that I had gained in my own way. Would you rather I copied and pasted everything I read?
No, but if you’re going to post something along with your opinions, you should post facts.
Ah yes, the facts that conform to your belief system, right?
I cam across your blog accidentally via the Viva La Vida post and have read a couple of your other posts and many of your comments and replies. Ironically, it is people such as yourself, among others, who help to propel my mind towards a higher view of God and to slough away all the bad things about religion and just cling to the purity of love the Jesus teaches me. It’s like iron sharpening iron. So thanks. 🙂
Good on ye Saskia.
Hey, Lenny-
I scanned much of this thread. Interesting conversation. I think it would be pretty interesting to chat with you. I am a theist, but also pretty deep in basic sciences, including biochemistry. I would be interested to talk further.
I am little confused by the dates on the posts, They don’t seem to be sequential (indeed, almost random). Could you explain??
TSB
You all assume “Re Ligion” is JUST the Bible. Re Ligio is Greek for “Again Union with God”. It is a practice made up by man always, out of his need, to connect, to his hiding creator father mother whatever. We don’t know. But, we DO know that ALL this world vanishes. Wanting to Live On, we BELIEVE that WE DO and invent, Heavens, etc. Is it real? Yes. Why do I say so? Because a big bang cannot come from NOTHING without a GOD OUTSIDE this REALM we call creation. We are in a womb gestating, would be a metaphor for our place and plight. Like on an egg in a womb, we can’t see outside, but it’s there. After Lives, all of us are liberated to heaven. We are here first, to suffer, and learn that NO GOD means MANY LITTLE GODS running around trying to fulfill their material desires. The song focuses on faults of others, not on his own inner relationship with God, and that is His, Chris’s Problem. To the Believers, I am HINDU not christian, this song is reviling though beautiful sounding. To me, it is Illuminati Made, Chris and them Paid, Cold Play is a Negative sounding Name as well. Britain at this time and for awhile has been down on itself. All the interpretations I’ve read are wrong, because they all dont know theology, and Chris is useless having studied but having no beliefs. Everthing you are, and see, vanishes, the ONLY thing you can take with you at death is FAITH or thoughts, I’ve died and been resuscitated, and know a thing or two. Good luck being an Atheist. For your Intellectual Front, I say, excuse my faith statements, but I admitted, WE THE RELIGIOUS do not KNOW our God. Said this way, “WE believe in what we DONT SEE, for what we see, is all DEAD and diseased and will vanish in time, so this is NO PLACE for a living eternal soul, but Heaven is. The mere fact that we exist, proves God exists. I am ot afraid, to debate, with the devil, the pope, (I dont believe in the devil and I think the pope is unholy always basically because he’s compliant, and compliant today, means sinful automatically,
I am NOT afraid of SCHOLARS WORS or Undeserved laughter at their opponents in thought.
I am NOT a jew, christian, muslim, or anything YOU ALL are familiar with. YOU ALL, dont know, about ANY RELIGION EAST OF ITALY. You are in ignorance. You do NOT have KNOWLEDGE to draw from. The BIBLE is a LIE BOOK , the roman bible, is made up, you MUST know that by now dont you ? The Torah, it’s source, is different.
Jews, have an awful understanding of religion and god and Yeshua Pandera (Jesus) came ONLY FOR THEM so the bible states, whatever, paul, a killer convert, can NEVER be holy.
I love the Beat and Sound of this song, but it is Satans Servants who wrote it. The lyrics are deadly poison unhearable and unllikeable by anyone of faith. The proof faith is real, is that it can heal. The statistics speak, louder than your mercurial self worshipping materialisticly believing ha ha drivel.
I am NOT a fighter, but I stand up to your MOUTH and MIND LENNY and FRIENDS. Find me, Talk to the REAL KING OF THOUGHT ON EARTH. ME. What you BELIEVE IS REAL, IS BUILT on pillars of Angel Cake. It WILL FALL.
When you die, you float out of your body, so how is that possible, EVEN if you are not dead and are pre destined, as all things are, to return to your body, still, how, LENNY, do we all see the workers resuscitating us from about 20 feet above them????? How do our EYES go THERE?
I AM A HARE KRISHNA LEADER. WE HAVE TWO TWIN YOUNG GIRLS who remember their past life as two of our monks who crashed one of our airplanes and died, years later, they re appeared as these twins, and KNOW EVERYBODY all of us from their past when they meet us, and tell us, stories, nobody could know, because each story is private, a conversation in a hallway, a time travelling in a car…. these types of mysteries blow your lack of brain power out the window.
Lastly, the Wicked and Wild wind verse, is probably about when Jesus unwillingly if you know the true story rode a donkey to the temple under palm leaves and entered, he was TAKEN by the PEOPLE who LOVED HIM stupid people, outside the temple, did it all real fast when he showed up and he reluntantly went along with the JOKE
But the pharisees saw it as no joke.
Then he further during the arguments said something that ended his life, that he would reveal herods secret.
That got him killed.
When he BLEW INTO THE TEMPLE it wasn’t HIS FAULT….. it was a wicked and wild wind, the people’s ferver for “Healing Hands”, that took him in, blew open the doors, people in there knew of him, everyone did, by then, and loved him, jews converted by tons, the Talmud says they hung him after waiting forty days for someone to claim him. Jesus was an Autistic according to the Talmud AND HAD PORPHYRIA according to the Talmud, and the JEWS WERE THERE, not 300 years later 1000 miles away… and Roman. No.
The Talmud is our BEST BET in reality of Jesus’s life, which was …. way different, from what you think. Because, you know only the political power lie bible and the “Teachings” of Paul who is a KILLER JEW who can’t ride a horse.
I”ve known Killers, many, they can NEVER EVER LEAD a religion in this life, they are TOO hell bent on getting what they WANT and religion is all about FORGETTING what YOU want and serving GODS WISHES which we INFER from RATIONAL THINKING on the divine, which not all are capable of.
SPIRIT WALL, YE SHALL NOT PASS OR DEFEAT
Das Goravani
Servant, of the 2nd Commandment, in Bengali Indian Language,
In arabic, aramaic, hebrew, it means, The Sacrificial Lamb. I am a VEGAN. I dont kill.. But this metaphor, deeply engrained in basic religions like the davidic three, is a metaphor, that fits me, for I will not deny God, before a gun, a firing squad, or whatever, I have already been shot, been in a religion small war in India, toured the land of the now dead Tamal Tigers (I’m on their side but they lost)….. I am 56 and from a Royal Irish Family that founded important american cities. I am the prince of one of the US’s Largest Cities. Not that that law framework is AT ALL in place anymore, Irish that is, but we founded BEFORE the US came to our places, we are like white american indians.
Like NEU in the Matrix, your bullets, stop, at my command. Have a Faithful Life Soon.
My father and mother in heavens servant and son,
Richard Edward Daniel Vurst
aka: Mr Das Goravani
Dont reply to me if you are a non believer, it’s useless, you’ll only raise your blood pressure.
Lenny, with those as your fave quotes, it’s OBVIOUS you ARE a BELIEVER struggling against your fledgling amount of faith. If you want to really believe. Dialog with me. You will convert to BELIEF IN GOD, ETERNITY, HEAVEN, NOT, any book or religion. I follow NONE. I know them ALL. I know what scripture and religions are, relics of men, but the SUBJECT, is THE POWER WE LIVE IN, THE SUBJECT, GOD, IS SURROUNDING YOU RIGHT NOW, for everything, comes from an eternal center, not a timeline big bang from nowhere, turns to mud, and then into a Macintosh, the Space Shuttle, Religion and Wars. Yeah, Mud can do that. BULL. NOWHERE on earth EVER do we find LIFE coming from MATTER without PREVIOUS LIFE injecting it. You know what else, consider… PLANTS cannot procreate without the help of wind, birds, bees, etc…. therefore they are life, without soul, they are food, as is said in the Teachings of Buddha, and Genesis… Stop eating murdered sentients, your mind will clear up from all the fear you eat, and you’ll be able to feel and see beauty, and GOD. OM TAT SAT. 3~.
Lenny, change your name. The name Lenny, is too linguistically close to lousy loose loan shark lender types of words, all sinful. It’s a name that keeps you thinking you’re low. L is not a good letter for starting Humans Names. I know P.I.E. roots, the meaning of sounds, language has a pattern, shared the world over for the most part… consider, is from latin con sidere, which means, “Check your astrological chart”, add the SIdere, UNIVERSE, to your thoughts, as you plan, my friend, Roman Speaking. Consider now means simply “Think”. Wrong. Words Matter. Anagrams Work. Peace out youngsters.
ps: I’m a singer songwriter and know many famous stars, have lived in hollywood and it’s recording studios. Nothing about Rock is a mystery to me. Nothing about the Jews that own the place and wish to mislead america through song is a mystery to me either, now how they created the schemes that have bankrupted all professional musicians starting with Napster. Screw you Pirates. A survey concluded ALL young people today are music pirates, Well, I have songs on iTunes, I, like Cher, U2, etc, NEVER MAKE A PENNY off my work because it’s only stolen, so why dont you write a bunch of reviews about YOUR NATURE AND ETHICS AS A GENERATION.
Martin Gore, and Chris Martin BOTH have cross hairs on their heads. Martin Gore, Depeche Mode, cannot go to a concert except in a fully bullet proof armored vehicle with big guards, and they ALL get out and go into the Venue that day, in FULL BODY ARMOR under HUGE CLOTHES, and I dont agree with those who would attack them, but think about it, you are, taking on by your own will, the beliefs, of many people, who hold those beliefs, as their core, like me, i have multiple genetic diseases and am yet lucid and a scholar, I need assistants… i hate my life, my living human life is very hard to be in… Religion, or my beliefs, better said, is my core. You are, the AGGRESSOR, here, you, write in public, things decrying the CORE of MANY people, and you subtly put them down as totally stupid people. So you are like Chris and Martin, these youngsters caught in the “Us-ism” of their generations. My dads a pearl harbor survivor. My mom typed all the pacific death notices, and they met. Their lives were hell and God was there for them. There are MANY places, and circles of men, where, if you, or Chris, went, you would be pummelled to near death for your offenses against MANKIND. That’s how, THEY, I, would see it, but I, am a pacifist, LIKE THE FAKE TEACHINGS OF JESUS, some of us actually follow them because CAITANYA ACTUALLY LIVED THEM 500 years ago in India, that’s very fresh, there’s muslim newspapers about it, you know NOTHING of Nimai Pandit Caitanya Mahaprabhu, but he was JUST LIKE THE JESUS we hear about from Rome, ACTUALLY… and ONLY 500 years ago… MUSLIMS, who are NOT like him, Hindu, WITNESSED, his miracles.. his top followers, were Persian Mogul Princes occupying India, Turks, same thing…. Mogul India times, an occupation, and this hindu boy, is converting the MUSLIM leaders, with tons of gold too, to Hinduism, HIS STYLE< which is just like Jesus….
So how about them apples? His Miracles, witnessed by many in the age of Matin Luther in Germany, same time period, that recent, are REAL. There are things in INDIA, which STAND, which are MIRACLES, unexplainable, to this day… Lenny, you are so uninformed.
What’s your full name?
This is more comment than criticism, but some of the most brilliant scientists have been people of faith (not necessarily “religious”, which can be quite different), and that includes many of those who have studied astrophysics, and the one example that comes to mind is Francis Collins, MD, director of the Human Genome Project.
Lots of very famous scientists were theists. Newton (Sir Isaac)actually wrote more theology than science or math. Einstein was a Deist. Mendel was a priest for goodness sake. The tendency of scientists to be agnostics or atheists is really a 20th century phenomenon.
TSB
Your funny, your no nonconformist in this era. You fit right in buddy.