Another Religious Lie That Came Through My e-Mail

Secularism is on the rise and so is Atheism. The signs are everywhere. More and more people across the planet are realizing that religion is a fraud. More Atheists are revealing themselves openly, especially in America, once thought of as becoming increasingly fundamentalist.

And the religious movements, proponents and apologists are all too aware of this shift away from their organizational clutches. Initially it was the cults and new-age existentialist movements that attracted both the weak-minded and disillusioned away from mainstream religions, but in the age of the World Wide Web, information is the new “God.” Information has exposed the irrational and illogical, and has replaced the imaginary power of God with a tangible alternative. Not that this alternative needs to be worshipped; it only needs to be acknowledged as a real power.
It is thus not surprising that religious organizations and self-serving individuals have resorted to using this information medium for spreading lies, half-truths, mis-quotes and disingenuous statistics, in a ludicrous attempt to confuse, mis-inform and keep the religiously inclined within their control. I recently posted an essay on a hoax mail about people who apparently mocked God, and I received another one recently. However, if you go to this page on the Snopes.com site, there are quite a few listed there.
 
Entitled, The Hands of God, the mail contained the following photograph and claim:
This is awesome! This certainly should make believers out of non-believers. Praise the Lord! Would you look at this picture? It reminds me of that song “He’s got the whole word in his hands.” He is definitely in control. I needed this today more than ever. Enjoy and pass it along. Photo taken in Kentucky .

Cara Winship sent this out it is called: God’s hands. I took this picture on Hwy 30, traveling to London , KY. It has given me strength in the times of trouble. I feel I should share it with the rest of the world. I hope it is an inspiration to you. It just goes to show what we already know…. We have a God and he’s watching over us. I e-mailed this picture to News Chanel 36. I was contacted by Meteorologist John James. He said that this picture of the sky is showing up, in all states, around the world. He wanted to know where I was from and where I took it. He saw a similar picture taken in Texas . He said this is amazing to him!

And my response:
This is not awesome. It’s just pathetic lies from religious cretins.
It certainly does not make me a believer. Actually, I’m even more of a non-believer now that I’ve seen this lame attempt to spread religious lies.
It reminds me of the song “liar, liar your pants are on fire…”
Er, no “He’s” definitely not in control if “He” is allowing such rubbish to be passed on as the truth.
John James?, Chanel 36 News, Cara Winship are all morons and liars.

Now here is what the real picture looked like before it was digitally defaced with a Photoshop clone tool. Wasn’t it a better picture before the religionists got their “grubby hands” on it?

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58 thoughts on “Another Religious Lie That Came Through My e-Mail

  1. I couldn’t have said it better myself. The original photo is awesome, the digitally enhanced one is creepy and as you say exposes these cretins for what they are. Do they not think they’ll be found out in doing this? So, they’ve changed a photo and said that it’s representative of God so as the photo didn’t look like that originally, doesn’t that mean that God, by extension, isn’t real? Interesting dontcha think?

    • i disagree, it is an awsome picture and if it was all digital photo watever than were did that light in the circle come from? anyway if it were i could still see the hands on there, believe it or not. You don’t understand and you will never understand. God is letting all these things like tornadoes happen because he is comming soon, and because he is GOD and created everything, he can no longer stand all of this corruption etc. So believe it or not, he is coming soon and if your not ready, mark my words, you will stay and you will regret it, he doesn’t care what you think because obiviously you don’t care so he doesn’t care what you think. Have a nice one!!!!!!!!!!!

      Reply 2009 July 15 priscilla permalink
      o and one more thing, try taking everything off of that picture but what God has done and what he is doing, you’ll NEVER be able to earase!!!!!!
      Have a nice one and toooo bad that you chose not to believe, stinks for you!!!!!!

      • Hi Priscilla,

        That “circle” happens to be a break in the cloud formation, and the light is naturally the light from the sun.

      • Did not the 19 terrorists who destroyed the worlds trade center….cry….GOD IS GREAT? If not for a strong religious belief…those 19 youths could not have accomplished what they did.

        They did to the temple of the U.S. what Sampson did to the temple of the Phillistines.

        The people on the plane all cried for God to help. The 19 boys…cried for their GOD to help.

        Did their GOD win?…After all they accomplished their mission…by help of their GOD?. The passengers on the plane did not accomplish their mission. Which GOD won?

        If you believe that God is responsible for the death of John Lennon or the shipbuilder of the Titanic….you are no different than those horrendous vile murderous terrorists who did that dastly deed. You are a murderer in your heart for which God will show no forgiveness.

  2. These type of lies are actually meant for the eyes of the faithfull only. The organized religious structures know that they will not succeed in converting us non-believers with lies like this. They spread these lies to believers hoping to affirm their faith; to keep a hold on them. It’s really hard to convince die-hard believers that they are being lied to, but real easy to affirm their faith with more religious propaganda.

  3. I’ve been somewhat of a fan of coldplay and when the new cd came out I was wondering what those lyrics were really about and I came upon your explaination.
    I was very much disappointed by it all but first I will agree that over the centuries man has used religion to exploit,destroy, confuse and dominate man, countries, ect. However the question still remains: IS THERE A GOD AND HOW DOES HE RELATE TO MAN? Well Just as atheists of his day had asked IS THERE A GOD? D.L.MOODY the theologian in Chicago told the men to show up the next day and he would show them God. What he provided was a number of people who shared their changed lives after they committed their lives to Jesus Christ. The problem with people who do not believe in God is that if they admit that there is one,they may have to make changes in there lives that they think will make them miserable. I say take a chance, read the bible and honestly ask the question ” is there a god and if there is reveal yourself to me in my spirit.” Pray that with all honesty and God will show up. I know He did for me!

  4. Hi Pam, the question is just as relevent as asking “is there a flying spaghetti monster,” but you don’t ask that do you? I could commit myself to meatballs and be quite happy, but that does not prove the existence of the FSM, now does it? Ask yourself if it is rational? If Jesus makes you happy, by all means commit to whatever you think Jesus is. I prefer to stay rational, and I’m quite content with that. You’ll forgive me if I don’t take the chance; it’s not logical…

  5. This photo is despicable. First, it is a photoshop – the original picture didn’t have the hands in it. A shock/porno website featuring homosexual content wanted a photo of God spreading his anus for its “Welcome Mat” – thus, this photo was created. I don’t care how we as christians may perceive it – it was born of sin and therefore, in my mind, is not of God!

  6. i disagree, it is an awsome picture and if it was all digital photo watever than were did that light in the circle come from? anyway if it were i could still see the hands on there, believe it or not. You don’t understand and you will never understand. God is letting all these things like tornadoes happen because he is comming soon, and because he is GOD and created everything, he can no longer stand all of this corruption etc. So believe it or not, he is coming soon and if your not ready, mark my words, you will stay and you will regret it, he doesn’t care what you think because obiviously you don’t care so he doesn’t care what you think. Have a nice one!!!!!!!!!!!

  7. o and one more thing, try taking everything off of that picture but what God has done and what he is doing, you’ll NEVER be able to earase!!!!!!
    Have a nice one and toooo bad that you chose not to believe, stinks for you!!!!!!

  8. Even if its not a real picture it still comforts my soul. This picture is a blessing to me real or unreal because it reminds me that the day when Jesus calls His child up to meet Him in the clouds will soon come, whether one believes it or not the Bible has always and will always be truth. (I thessalonians 4:13-18)

  9. Hey. That’s actually misleading. That’s foul play! This is something I will never justify, and will never fight for. There are so many e-mails like this, it’s lulls you into a false sense of faith. It’s quite good that you’ve uncovered the real thing. I apologize for the entire behalf of the community. Sometimes, you can’t avoid blind, religion-obsessed folks. Just like me. Tee-hee.

    Believers, be rational. I look at your posts and I see nonsense.

  10. ok, first of all you both are wrong, this woman disgusts me. she did NOT take this photo, and it was NOT taken in KY. it was taken by boyscout landing in Duluth, MN. My mother , CANDACE MARIE FORSETH took this photo. it was tooken around 2005-2006 in the summer. im sorry, i just really want to get my point across. This woman must have stolen this picture from my mothers myspace pictures. it isnt all that real btw, my mom tweaked it up a lil using”white” computer paint to smooth out the fingure a bit. but it had still looked like gods hand in the beginning, she just edited it a bit to make it look more noticable. if you people dont believe me i could truly care less, you people are really “low” if you dont, and so is the woman saying she took this.:( ty for your time:)

    -Alexa

  11. I hate when things like this get passed. They do more harm than good, no matter what the original intention. Inspiration is perceived as deception.

    I don’t need Photoshopped photographs to believe in the comfort and protection of God. Believing in Jesus Christ and His sacrifice does not come from organized religion. It is about grace and faith. An internal Peace. It’s a one-on-one relationship that can’t be easily explained with sappy inspirational one-liners. Is this logical? No. Faith is not about what is logical. That is why it is called faith.

    You may choose to reply with the cynicism I’ve seen in your other posts, but, I can accept your views without getting personal. I, alone, am accountable for my actions. I choose to believe, you choose to not.

  12. It is illogical to think everything is a random act viewing the entirety of the universe with all the stars, planets, animal and plant life, light…etc.

    Most atheist are the nicest people I know, but must have had a imagined bad experience with God. They asked God for help and he did not appear on demand. They think God let them down. So they don’t want to get her again and build the wall of his non existence to block out the pain. My dad was a b-17 tail gunner and he was an atheist because of the WWII. He said if people were dead and dying around you would not believe in God either.

    My experience with God is you have to nag him. You have to prove yourself worthy, not the other way around.

    • Hi William,

      So you think science is illogical? As science reveals the secrets of the universe (admittedly slowly) the rational being has less and less need to attribute the many wonders to any supernatural intervention.

      The universe is in fact quite hostile to life; as evidenced by the fact that more than 95% of all species of life, that have ever lived have become extinct.The future of mankind is also very tenuous; one day the sun will eventually burn out, destroying all the planets around it. I,m personally very glad and confident that science will enable us to make a new home somewhere else, perhaps in another solar system, that is amenable to sustaining life.

      One cannot blame your father for questioning the presence of a divine being, taking into account the death and destruction he witnessed. However, I don’t think that’s the only reason for his non-belief. You actually give him less credit than he deserves.

      I don’t know how you know that most atheists have had an “imagined bad experience” with god, but I can assure you that I have not. My reason for non-belief is simply because I have found no evidence for the existence of any supernatural entity.

  13. I’ll always believe in God, but I can say that religion is used to divide and spread lies to gain control and exploit people. One of these popular ways of “keeping the faith” is by using the chain-mail system: Utter junk, propaganda, jokes, eye candy- they can make up whatever they want and many gullible individuals believe it.

    I’m shocked at how poor the quality of this picture is. It’s pretty damn obvious that this picture was edited, then given a fake description. I found a higher resolution pic over at Myspace funny pictures.

    With today’s software, a simple blur tool can manipulate the surroundings.

  14. Another something to look at. I’ll let you be the judge on this one, my guess is that it’s CGI done by a software called “Boujou” 3d integrated with real-time imaging, but the quality is so poor and the shot was at night so I have no clue if the footage was edited or not..

    • Obviously made by someone with a little FX knowledge/experience. I’m not familiar with CGI software, so can’t comment there. However, with the little knowledge I have, I’d say it was reasonably well done. Perhaps the poor quality and night shooting was intentional, to create the ambience.

  15. If anyone cares to Google “goatse” they will see why this picture was made.

    Yes, it is a fake, and very funny to those of us who are internet-savvy.

    And to any/all who claimed to take this pic: god will judge you for your lies.

  16. Pingback: Proof that UFO’s do exist « Lenny Says

  17. Faith according to the bible is a gift from God Ephesians 2:8-9 so that nobody can boast to have it all figured out. The problem with the Christian religion is one of “Denominational Divergence”. It would seem a boasting that this scripture clearly states is wrong.

    I mean to believe that God sent Jesus Christ to start a new religion called Christianity is ludicrous at best. There are over 30,000 Christian denominations and of those 10,000 think they are the only way to salvation.

    The facts are that; Jesus was real, the New Testament is the most historically accurate book in the history of mankind, bar none. and that Jesus Christ was a Jew not a baptist, roman catholic, protestant, etc…

    I suggest reading the book in its entirety before rejecting it, but rejecting religion I suggest you do that whole heartily. I believe until you experience God for real He is just a thought and God can use any means to get a point across he is not finite like us.

    JMHO…

    • Hi Bruce,

      I’m not exactly sure what your beliefs are, but you speak as if you have first hand knowledge about a god and how he gets his message across. Do you seriously expect anyone to believe you?

  18. Lenny,

    Seriously I don’t expect anything, because seriously God is real for me, but this was not always so. And my reality towards God is not the same as yours or others, I’m sure. Perhaps I may be a complete blathering idiot from your point of view, but none the less I believe because of experience.

    I’m just like a little kid that was told by his Daddy don’t touch the red hot heater because it will burn you. But when Daddy left the room I had to find out for myself if it was true.

    So I touched it experiencing what he told me would happen so now I believe that the heater is hot and can burn me. So is my experience with God and the God that never says he is real but more confirms His existence.

    If you would like to hear how it happened I’d be happy to share…

    • Hi again Bruce,

      I don’t doubt that you experienced something; and from all possible explanations for your experience/s, you have chosen god as the the one that you think best accounts for it/them.

      If you’re comfortable that you have found the best possible answer, I suppose there is nothing more that I can do about it.

      …and no, I do not think you are a blathering idiot.

    • Hi Bruce,

      Perhaps I feel the same need a great number of Christians (and other faiths) feel to proselytize. I could “preach” to you about science and critical thinking, but I won’t.

  19. Lenny

    My friend we all know that there is strength in numbers if my gang is bigger than your gang, well then, we win, right? Lets consider what the bible says about all these 30,000 Christian denominations trying to win converts. Certainly you would not want to copy something you dislike so would you?

    “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

    “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

    This passage can be found somewhere in the most historically accurate book in existence. Also it is the most misaligned book in history as well. I know amazing but true. We should be calling ignorance the pandemic disease not H1N1.

    I’m all for critical thinking because we attack the same thing only from different angles, consider; X plus 4 divided by X = 5

    • Hi Bruce,

      There is a difference between critical thinking and fantastical thinking. You attack the 30 000 odd other denominations that conflict with your own world-view; I don’t discriminate and thus attack all religious thinking, including your own.

      You keep mentioning this “most historically accurate book in existence.” Where is your proof? It is certainly the most “misaligned” book in history – misaligned with reality!!!

  20. Lenny,

    I guess in your opinion I’m just a religious bigot attacking all the denominations that don’t align with my world view, as you put it. That’s funny because my world view has absolutely nothing to do with my thoughts on God. My belief in God is based on my experience, it is now part of my Noetic structure (The term noetic structure comes from ‘noeo’ in Greek which means to think or to understand. The term was coined by the epistimologist Alvin Plantinga. Everyone has a noetic structure).

    The New Testament is the most historically accurate book in existence today due to the fact that there is well over 5,000 Greek manuscripts that testify to that fact. I could Google the evidence for you, but I won’t. If your going to take a stand on anything then consider what Martin Luther King Jr said; “Until you find something to die for, you haven’t begun to live”. Would you bet your life that God certainly doesn’t exist?

    More on my attack on denominational divergence allow me to reiterate for you once again what my study of the most historically book reveals. I mean to believe that God sent Jesus Christ to start a new religion called Christianity is ludicrous at best. There are over 30,000 Christian denominations and of those 10,000 think they are the only way to salvation.

    So to see that someone would photoshop a picture and try to pass it off as real to help further their own denominational belief in God is not surprising at all. However is anything real or is it all illusion? Do we only see what our bias sub-conscious mind wants us to see? Can we grow beyond limitations that we put on ourselves? Is there more then meets the eye?

    If you answer yes to any of these then I suggest you reevaluate your belief and change your term to Agnostic as someone who hasn’t experienced God personally.

    May…

    The Lord bless and keep you;
    The Lord make His face shine upon you,
    And be gracious to you;
    The Lord lift up his countenance upon you,
    And give you peace

    • Hi Bruce,

      Alvin Plantinga: Christian apologist, psuedo-scientist, intelligent design supporter. Need I say more to discredit him?

      His proposal that one can believe that a god can exist without the need for proof, is all rather too neat and convenient. Using arguments cloaked in semi-scientific (pseudo-scientific) reasoning is dishonest at best and fraudulent at worst.

      The new testament is based loosely on history at best. For all the evidence you can find that points to its historical accuracy, there is an equal amount that points otherwise. Should I believe those that shout or threaten (with god’s wrath) the loudest, or the others?

      “Would you bet your life that God certainly doesn’t exist?” Sure, I would; the probability for a god’s existence is practically zero. If a god does actually exist, and is anything like the religions describe, then I would gladly go to hell.

      “If you answer yes to any of these then I suggest you reevaluate your belief and change your term to Agnostic as someone who hasn’t experienced God personally”

      Actually, I’m still the atheist (I believe in no gods). You are the agnostic – you are agnostic about Shiva, Krishna, Allah, Zues, Appolo…pick a god from the thousands that compete(d) with Christianity.

  21. Lenny,

    What can I say, other than I like you. You have passion and a man that would die for what he believes or doesn’t believe, is OK by me. However are you open to more then what your current experience has to offer?

    I have another question about God. Despite all the different religions out there and the Christian God being the one that you atheist struggle with the most, would you accept God as He is, if He said “Lenny I am God and I AM real”?

    • Hi Bruce,

      Despite the way my responses may sound, I don’t have anything against you personally. I actually believe you’re a good guy. You just need more time to discover what exists outside of your religious beliefs.

      I am open to the realities of the natural world. I see much more in nature, and in the world than most people normally do. I can appreciate all the beauty in the world without having to ascribe it to supernatural causes.

      Atheists don’t “struggle” with Christianity. The reason it is picked on the most is because of its proselytizing and in your face nature. Recently though, Islam seems to have taken over this mantle.

      I cannot “accept” that which most probably doesn’t exist.

  22. Lenny

    First let me say I appreciate your concern for my feelings, however I try not to put to much emotion into words other than taking the text at face value. I have lived approx. half my life thus far and have heard and seen many things. I love nature and regularly get away into the back country for some solitude or adventure. Depending on my needs or the needs of my fantastic offspring.

    My spiritual life is and always will be part of my experience on this earth and the God I know has become an extension of my experience here. When my first child was born, I remember wondering how can I love someone else this much it changed me inside fully and completely. Perhaps it was the love of God overflowing in me. You see my God tells me through the written word that this life is about learning to love fully and completely others, myself and God. So being somewhat opinionated from an experience standpoint. What good are we if do not practice loving those in our home first, and succeeding at that first?

    And that the gift is not our take on love but God’s take which is beyond our highest thought on the topic. Imagine that if you will, that, love; something that we all need as humans no matter what continent we are on. Just like we need water, food, shelter and oxygen so do we need love to grow and become more than we could ever imagine. God is about love and the missing link in our vacuous spirit. God need not be a theory, but is, for most people. All one need do to experience God, is to ask. I asked and from an unbelieving, as if he was real, ridiculing stance and He showed me a thing or two about who He is. My spiritual experience has been one of learning to love in this life, at which I am still working on daily. It’s all about love, love, love…

    Experiential differentiation is the difference that makes anything that was not previously known, known. I was taught by the world that there was many Gods but I found only one that makes sense both spiritually and intellectually. Jesus Christ, is the only religious figure that makes an appearance in every major world religion and philosophy. So I bought myself a leather bound book sometime ago (New King James Version Spirit Filled bible) and it is a sense of amazement to me daily. One thing I have learned is that nowhere in the book does it say Jesus Christ came to start a new religion called Christianity. Unless you believe all the footnotes by various biblical scholars and adherents of the denominational system.

    A doctor friend of mine who came from South Africa and now resides in Canada is a brain surgeon that believes in the same Jesus as me. He tells me that we have tomes and tomes of information on the human brain and that it only scratches the surface of the organ in our skulls. Science and faith can go hand and hand but religion and science seem to be at odds. As you may have guessed by now I am not religious but I believe in God and His Son Jesus Christ who is promised as the Saviour of all mankind.

    Disclaimer: For clarity I have not always believed this. But believe that others in my life prayed for me to have understanding. And that subsequent intercessory prayer is what made the difference for my faith. So then my faith is not the in-your-face proselytizing of Christian denominationalism, but one of a covert nature and much less intrusive and subtle. It took me over thirteen years to discover this, I share it with you now. And I will pray for you as well.

    • Hey there Bruce,

      Three problems:

      Are you suggesting that a person who has not “experienced god or Christ or spirituality” is incapable of experiencing, feeling or showing love?

      Are you suggesting that because only Christ “made sense” to you, everyone else in the world who believes in the multitude of other gods/demons/whatever must be delusional/wrong. What makes you think that their particular choice of god was not the only one that made sense to them?

      “Jesus Christ, is the only religious figure that makes an appearance in every major world religion and philosophy.” While this claim is dubious, has it occurred to you that the reason for Jesus seeming to appear in many other world religions is because Christianity borrowed the Christ figure from these very religions. You can google this. Christianity has been re-hashed from many other earlier and contemporary religions and traditions, most notably the Egyptian religious traditions and Mithraism. Many books have also been written on the subject. One author in particular has dedicated a large part of her life to writing about this. Acharya S/D.M. Murdock has written: “The Christ Conspiracy,” “Suns of God,” “Who Was Jesus?,” “Christ in Egypt,” “The Gospel According to Acharya S”. Many credible theologians concur. There is extensive proof out there.

      It’s highly disingenuous to suggest that science and faith have anything in common. On the contrary, faith is antithetical to science.

      In closing, praying for me is going to do neither me nor you, any good. Rather put the time to better use.

  23. Lenny

    Love and the experience of God?

    Our love as humans is always conditional, Gods love is non-conditional and is the source for our finite emotion we call love. If we as people can love, whether we are spiritual, religious, have experienced God, et al. Then we must realize the difference between karma and grace. If we give to those that need it most, are we giving to charity or to justice? This type of thinking differentiates us from the animal kingdom, that has no sense of justice. Therefore I am in no way stating that anyone is incapable of love due to their belief system. However I am saying; that we are here to learn to love. And a love that is higher than our highest thought on the subject. This is the message of Jesus Christ. For he said;

    ’You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.”

    The enigma of Jesus’ statement is that we cannot do the first without succeeding at the second. And to say that this world needs more love is a gross understatement of the highest degree.

    Other beliefs other than Jesus Christ:

    I do not think they are completely wrong nor do I propose that they are delusional. However just like there is more than one way to reach a destination. So then live by your precepts, but be open to other forms of transportation that can help you in your journey. For example if you are walking but I am driving and offered you a ride, would you say no I don’t believe in motored transportation?

    The borrowed myth of Jesus Christ as Messiah:

    Yes, Lenny I am fully aware of this trend that says that Christianity has borrowed from ancient religions and I agree with it fully. My stance is this; “If you believe that Jesus Christ came to start a new religion called Christianity, then you are stupid and blind to the facts of Jesus Christ. The cool thing about being stupid is it can be stopped by listening and blindness by opening ones centre to further truth. My grade four teacher had a sign on his desk that said; “Listening is Learning”.

    I know that the best way to destroy something is from the inside out. If I was a virus well then I would prefer a warm host with which to multiply and thereby gain other hosts until my deadly rampage was done. Christian belief went from a persecuted belief to a persecuting religion under sway of the Romans. And as was always with the Romans the excelled at all they did. So in my opinion and my research of the topic; modern Christianity is built upon false precepts and must be torn down in order for the truth to be revealed.

    Faith antithetical to Science:

    1. Only in recent years has science discovered that everything we see is composed of invisible atoms. Here, Scripture tells us that the “things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.”

    2. Medical science has only recently discovered that blood-clotting in a newborn reaches its peak on the eighth day, then drops. The Bible consistently says that a baby must be circumcised on the eighth day.

    3. At a time when it was believed that the earth sat on a large animal or a giant (1500 B.C.), the Bible spoke of the earth’s free float in space: “He…hangs the earth upon nothing” (Job 26:7).

    4. The prophet Isaiah also tells us that the earth is round: “It is he that sits upon the circle of the earth” (Isaiah 40:22). This is not a reference to a flat disk, as some skeptic maintain, but to a sphere. Secular man discovered this 2,400 years later. At a time when science believed that the earth was flat, is was the Scriptures that inspired Christopher Columbus to sail around the world (see Proverbs 3:6 footnote).

    5. God told Job in 1500 B.C.: “Can you send lightnings, that they may go, and say to you, Here we are?” (Job 38:35). The Bible here is making what appears to be a scientifically ludicrous statement—that light can be sent, and then manifest itself in speech. But did you know that radio waves travel at the speed of light? This is why you can have instantaneous wireless communication with someone on the other side of the earth. Science didn’t discover this until 1864 when “British scientist James Clerk Maxwell suggested that electricity and light waves were two forms of the same thing” (Modern Century Illustrated Encyclopedia). Is this not how we are communicating right now?

    6. Job 38:19 asks, “Where is the way where light dwells?” Modern man has only recently discovered that light (electromagnetic radiation) has a “way,” traveling at 186,000 miles per second.

    7. Science has discovered that stars emit radio waves, which are received on earth as a high pitch. God mentioned this in Job 38:7: “When the morning stars sang together…”

    8. “Most cosmologists (scientists who study the structures and evolution of the universe) agree that the Genesis account of creation, in imagining an initial void, may be uncannily close to the truth” (Time, Dec. 1976).

    9. Solomon described a “cycle” of air currents two thousand years before scientists “discovered” them. “The wind goes toward the south, and turns about unto the north; it whirls about continually, and the wind returns again according to his circuits” (Ecclesiastes 1:6).

    10. Science expresses the universe in five terms: time, space, matter, power, and motion. Genesis 1:1,2 revealed such truths to the Hebrews in 1450 B.C.: “In the beginning [time] God’s [Elohim} created [power] the heaven [space] and the earth [matter] . . . And the Spirit of God’s moved [motion] upon the face of the waters.” The first thing God tells man is that He controls of all aspects of the universe.

    11. The great biological truth concerning the importance of blood in our body’s mechanism has been fully comprehended only in recent years. Up until 120 years ago, sick people were “bled,” and many died because of the practice. If you lose your blood, you lose your life. Yet Leviticus 17:11, written 3,000 years ago, declared that blood is the source of life: “For the life of the flesh is in the blood.”

    12. All things were made by Him (see John 1:3), including dinosaurs. Why then did the dinosaur disappear? The answer may be in Job 40:15–24. In this passage, God speaks about a great creature called “behemoth.” Some commentators think this was a hippopotamus. However, the hippo’s tail isn’t like a large tree, but a small twig. Following are the characteristics of this huge animal: It was the largest of all the creatures God made; was plant-eating (herbivorous); had its strength in its hips and a tail like a large tree. It had very strong bones, lived among the trees, drank massive amounts of water, and was not disturbed by a raging river. He appears impervious to attack because his nose could pierce through snares, but Scripture says, “He that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.” In other words, God caused this, the largest of all the creatures He had made, to become extinct.

    13. Encyclopedia Britannica documents that in 1845, a young doctor in Vienna named Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis was horrified at the terrible death rate of women who gave birth in hospitals. As many as 30 percent died after giving birth. Semmelweis noted that doctors would examine the bodies of patients who died, then, without washing their hands, go straight to the next ward and examine expectant mothers. This was their normal practice, because the presence of microscopic diseases was unknown. Semmelweis insisted that doctors wash their hands before examinations, and the death rate immediately dropped to 2 percent. Look at the specific instructions God gave His people for when they encounter disease: “And when he that has an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself even days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in running water, and shall be clean” (Leviticus 15:13). Until recent years, doctors washed their hands in a bowl of water, leaving invisible germs on their hands. However, the Bible says specifically to wash hands under “running water.”

    14. Luke 17:34–36 says the Second Coming of Jesus Christ will occur while some are asleep at night and others are working at daytime activities in the field. This is a clear indication of a revolving earth, with day and night at the same time.

    15. “During the devastating Black Death of the fourteenth century, patients who were sick or dead were kept in the same rooms as the rest of the family. People often wondered why the disease was affecting so many people at one time. They attributed these epidemics to ‘bad air’ or ‘evil spirits.’ However, careful attention to the medical commands of God as revealed in Leviticus would have saved untold millions of lives. Arturo Castiglione wrote about the overwhelming importance of this biblical medical law: ‘The laws against leprosyin Leviticus 13 may be regarded as the first model of sanitary legislation’ (A History of Medicine).” Grant R. Jeffery, The Signature of God With all these truths revealed in Scripture,how could a thinking person deny that the Bible is supernatural in origin? There is no other book in any of the world’s religions (Vedas, Bhagavad-Gita, Koran, Book of Mormon, etc.) that contains scientific truth. In fact, they contain statements that are clearly unscientific. Hank Hanegraaff said, “Faith in Christ is not some blind leap into a dark chasm, but a faith based on established evidence.”

    Some points to consider…

    Praying for Lenny:

    It is my honor to pray for you, if you have anything specific I would be glad to pray for that. For I do not consider it a waste of my time and allow time for it daily.

    • Hi Bruce,

      Love and the experience of God?
      So you admit that love is not predicated on a belief in a supernatural entity. We are making progress. I agree that the world needs more love, but that does not mean that everyone needs to get all religious or start believing in mythical beings, to give or show love.

      Other beliefs other than Jesus Christ:
      So other beliefs are not completely wrong, but yours is completely right? Right?
      And thanks, but I don’t think I want a ride in your invisible chariot. I’ll take the mode of transport that I can touch, feel and see.

      The borrowed myth of Jesus Christ as Messiah:
      This is not a trend as in fashion. Its a growing body of evidence. And it wont become less trendy in a few years or months.
      So, after two thousand years, the Romans are still to blame? Why? Have they got some magical grip on all Christians,that prevents them from changing all the wrong things?

      Faith antithetical to Science:
      This is so unbelievably absurd and disingenuous, that I don’t know whether to roll on teh floor laughing or tear my hair out. You have been gorging on the apologist rhetoric haven’t you? Yeah, I suppose if you look hard enough and bend the biblical texts to the right degree, you could find the theory of quantum electrodynamics or a bag-full of other scientific discoveries, somewhere in the bible? It’s just a pity that in two thousand years, nobody could figure out all the scientific facts contained in the bible. Who knows where mankind could have been today? Flying to the moon or other planets could have been like driving to the shop around the corner. Instead, people are still on their knees, praying for things to happen. Hell, I wonder why scientists are wasting their time at CERN, on the Large Hadron Collider? Maybe the Higgs Boson Particle they are looking for is hidden somewhere in the bible?

  24. Lenny

    Give and take is all it takes. I give, you take. You give, I take. Instead of acting all incredulous about my answers lets just answer and respect each other and yes I have gorged myself on the rhetoric of others. But then so have you. Perhaps we need ground rules. Instead of trying to make me look bad, try and respect my position. Which is a position of personal experience and although you don’t believe in God as I do. We should still be able to have meaningful dialogue without the need to show me how smart you think you are.

    There are problems in both camps with bullshit from both sides and although that is true it doesn’t have to spill into our dialogue. We both agree that religion is a farce, we both agree that love is possible without religion, we both agree that we are human, we both agree we did not start this. And we can both agree to respect the others position, can’t we?

    We are both incredible people and so are others. When you can see that in others they will see it in you. You want someone to be impressed with you. Well then be impressed with them. God thinks very highly of us human beings which reminds me of a story in Genesis 11. You know the one, the story of Babel which explains the all the different peoples of the earth and the different dialects as well.

    Something from that story has always resonated in me since my first reading it. God thinks very highly of us so much so, that He said look at what they do if we allow them to this nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them.

    The Tower of Babel

    Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. As men moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.

    They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”

    But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building. The LORD said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

    So the LORD scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. That is why it was called Babel —because there the LORD confused the language of the whole world. From there the LORD scattered them over the face of the whole earth.

    • Hello Bruce,

      Perhaps you mistake my disrespect for your beliefs, as disrespect towards you. I have nothing personal against you. As I have mentioned previously, I think you’re a good guy in person. However, don’t expect me to respect the unbelievably ignorant, superstitious, pseudo-scientific “bullshit” you’re trying to pass of as facts. They are not facts, and never will be, no matter how many people or gods or religious texts say they are. People like Ray Comfort, and organizations such as The Discovery Institute and Answers in Genesis who perpetuate this nonsense are frauds. Sure, there are problems in both camps, but the scientific camp is not known for wilfully spreading unsubstantiated claims. One needs to distinguish between real science which is not always palatable or easy to accept, and imaginative musings which sound nice and make you feel good.

      It is also unfortunate that the world is full of uncritical, desparate people who are only too keen to grasp onto the next straw thrown their way. This may sound haughty, but you will find that I am not one of them. In the age of enlightenment and with all the information resource at our disposal, I find it sad that people are still bound to superstitious beliefs and actually fall for pseudo-scientific “bullshit” being spread around.

      In your earlier post, I was so horrified by the assertion that the bible actually contained scientific facts of note, I neglected to correct one of your points. We are not communicating wirelessly across continents. We make use of undersea optic fiber cables which is a physical medium. Carrier networks do make use of satellite and microwave signals as back-up, but the primary form of communication is through physical wires, optical or copper. Broadcasters also make use of satellite for uploading of “live” video images to other parts of the world, but terrestrial networks are more reliable. The reason for using physical communications networks is because voice, and to a certain extent data, are more critical than broadcasting. I emphasize “live” because it is never live; there is always a delay in transmission. Also, radio waves travel at the speed of light in a vacuum.

      I do agree that the bible has literary value, and I have stated this many times before in my posts and comments, but it is not a tool to evaluate reality. Coming back to to your story about the tower of Babel. Don’t you think it’s just a nice illustrative story, but not meant to be taken as fact? How does the bible account for the different races (colours) and cultural systems?

  25. Lenny

    The Tower of Babel is an explanation for all the different folks on the earth and we have been moving toward one language ever since. The book of Job is full of scientific facts before science was even an infant and philosophy was the science of the time. The earth free-floats in space (Job 26:7), Oceans contain springs that feed it (Job 38:16). The ocean is very deep. How did Job know this did he explore the ocean floor?

    It’s all in the question not the answer that makes us all philosophers who have ever asked a question with sincerity. The absence of the missing link and transitional forms is to big of a whole for this cowboy to even consider Darwinism as a belief. Without those the theory is completely useless. Respectfully…

    • Hey there Bruce,

      You really ought to expand your narrow range of information resources. It seems to me that you willfully choose only the information sources that confirms your narrow world-view and discard all others.

      Your suggestion that the Tower of Babel was not only responsible for the multitude of languages, but magically caused peoples skin colours to change as well, is to put it mildly, absurd. You really need to read up on the works of many linguists who have researched the evolution of languages. Try reading about the Proto-Indo-European family of languages for a start. Language did not start in one place and then disperse as suggested by the mythical (and absurd) biblical tale, but rather combined with already spread-out dialects to form common language families. A pity, your “scientific” bible chose to obscure that fact.

      True, philosophy was a precursor to real science, but it’s a real stretch of the imagination to conclude that the bible contains any real scientific data. You could find the same kind of information in any number of other religious texts or even ordinary books, and with only a slight degree of mental gymnastics, make it seem scientific. Perhaps you need to first understand what scientific means. I could stand outside one moon-lit night and conclude that the moon is far away, just by looking at it. I will not require a PhD in astro-physics to come to this conclusion. And this conclusion is in no way scientific. You get the point (I hope).

      The Darwinian theory of natural selection is not a belief-system. It is a scientific hypothesis which is backed up by extensive data which has been rigorously verified and stands up to the highest scrutiny. The evidence in fact is verified on an almost daily basis by new findings in many other fields of science. Religious apologists have dishonestly tried (rather unsucessfully) to onscure this fact, by the spurious referrals to Darwinism to make it seem that scientists (and atheists) worship the man in some way. Apologists have been using the “gaps” in the fossil record as a red herring (rather unsucessfully and dishonestly) for way too long. The truth is that the theory of evolution does not need the fossil record to maintain its validity. It stands on its own. I quote here from Dawkins’s The Ancestors Tale:

      In spite of the fascination of fossils, it is surprising how much we would know about our evolutionary past without them. If every fossil were magicked away, the comparative study of modern organisms, of how their patterns of resemblance, especially of their genetic sequences, are distributed among species, and of how species are distributed among continents, and islands, would still demonstrate, beyond all sane doubt, that our history is evolutionary, and that all living creatures are cousins. Fossils are a bonus. A welcome bonus, to be sure, but not an essential one. It is worth remembering this when creationists go on (as they tediously do) about “gaps” in the fossil record. The fossil record could be one big gap, and the evidence for evolution would still be overwhelmingly strong. At the same time, if we had only fossils and no other evidence, the fact of evolution would again be overwhelmingly supported. As things stand, we are blessed with both.

      This revelation about the fossil record was written about in 2004 when The Ancestors Tale was first published, but was known about much earlier than that. It is a testament to man’s willingness to believe, rather that learn, that this nonsense about the gaps in the fossil record is still being bandied about.

  26. Lenny

    Wow that is some compelling evidence you got there. No wonder you believe in the organized theory of evolution. So lets see what is truly going on here. There are two camps squaring off, a war if you will, but not a real war because they are both to chicken to really fight. A bunch of gimpy eggheads with big mouths and no game. In one camp we have the “Organized Religious Christians” in the other camp we have the “Organized Theory of Evolutionists”.

    Lets get ready to Rummmmmble…

    What is the warfare method today?

    I know we can have a spelling bee and the loser has to read a book by some contemptuous goofball that thinks he’s smarter than everyone else.

    2004 wow that will echo through the halls of antiquity one day, won’t it?

    • Hi Bruce,

      In spite of what you think, the evidence is compelling. Even if all the Christian tribes (including every other religious group) in the world believed otherwise, it will not change reality. Yeah, reality, a nice word for you to get acquainted with.

      Lets see what we really have here: you have come up with what you think is a novel approach to religion and Christianity. You take all the baggage of religion and Christianity and call it non-religious “Christian Church Christianity” or whatever. Yes, how original is that? Let’s take the same irrational belief-system and wrap it up in shiny new foil, and then re-sell it as something new. Let’s call it religion without the religion. Let’s call it Christianity without all the excess baggage of denominations. Let’s re-invent Jesus and god. Hey, what a stroke of genius? [you can have your drum roll now]

      Come now Bruce, less critical people may be buying it (you’re guarenteed to have success for some time to come, judging by the state of ignorance prevalent in the world today), but do you seriously expect me and other skeptics like me to fall for it? Why would you care if we didn’t?

      By the way, read my latest post on my home page; it’s a tribute to the gaps in religious thinking, or perhaps not.

  27. Lenny

    I just thought of something funny Dawkins against Ray Comfort in a full contact fist fight who would win? Now that would be more entertaining than UFC. I think Comfort would beat him but then you never know the famous Dawkins rage could come from behind and win the day.

    I guess we will have to agree to disagree I’m sure that is old hat for you!

    • Hi Bruce,

      Dawkins probably has more integrity in his little finger, than Ray and all his followers put together. To suggest that Dawkins would even enter the same arena as the filth that is called Ray Comfort, is a disgrace coming from one who purports to be a “loving’ Christian.

      What’s the matter, running out of “proofs” for your belief, that you now resort to ad hominems. And your constant references to “fights’ and “fighting” and physical violence in your dialogues has not escaped me either. Has your belief not assuaged your primitive urge for violence? I wonder why? Hmmm….

  28. Lenny

    Ever heard the saying “Sticks and stones will break your bones, but words can get your whole head torn off” I guess I am just a barbarian at heart, since, if the theory of evolution is real that would be the natural order of things.

    I am joking of course and attempting to share a bit of why I believe because faith is intangible. We both have faith and hard as it is for you to believe; there is a lot of intangible holes in your theories that require a faith that surpasses my simple belief in God.

    I was smiling and lmao as I wrote that last bit about the fight I think it would be funny, don’t you? Or perhaps you are much to serious to see the humour in all this creation vs. evolution debate that you have insidiously been sucked into my friend. In my opinion you need to lighten up!

  29. Hi Bruce,

    “there is a lot of intangible holes in your theories”

    Really, point them out using empirical, quantifiable evidence. By the way, if they were theories, there would be no holes in them.

    Yeah, I’ll work on lightening up. But will you work on abandoning uncritical thinking?

  30. Lenny

    I just like you and everyone in this world was born into these debates already hotbeds of conversation as I nursed at my Mothers breast. Uncritical by who’s standards? I prefer to be me my own man, however I readily admit to not knowing all and that not everything is readily explainable by science or faith. But that never stopped either camp from trying to explain them from their own view point.

    As to the intangible holes how about the missing link, transitional fossils, carbon dating just to name a few!

  31. Pingback: And the devil’s response… « Lenny Says

  32. is it a lie when you feel a breez, or when you watch a tree grow. god loves us so much, he gives us choises, he put the oldest book on record in frount of us, in the new testment they walked with him, they wittnessed his death and reserection, the solders that put on guard to watch his tumb wittnessed his resuraction. people insulted him, but he loves us so much he still gives us a choise. son god loves you no matter what

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