Why do so many religious people hate themselves so much?
Judging by some of the comments on my blog posts, I have to conclude that many religious folks practise a form of self-loathing that could only be inspired by scripture, and reinforced through frequent worship sessions, by the clergy or other religious instructors. The proclivity to undermine ones personal self through various forms of self-denial, self-hatred, self-loathing, penance etc. seems to be very evident among Christians, but is by all accounts, absolutely intrinsic to Islam. Although not so openly evident in other religions, it is surely practiced to some degree.
Take this recent comment on my post Viva la Vida – What does it all mean?, “None of us deserve God, yet He gives us that opportunity, none of us deserve life, yet He gives us life and a chance to seek Him and become One with Him. Chris Jesus died for us; God became what we are that we might be what He is.” Why would a normal, sane and rational person believe that he does not deserve life? It could be expected of a person with psychological problems to have such insecurities, but what triggers such atypical thoughts in a normal, healthy person?
Here again, a commentator on my post The More You Learn, The More You Realize How Little You Know, maintains that you don’t know what’s best for you, only god does: “He IS the Creator after all. He knows what’s good for you. and you’re only ONE out of how many people on this planet??” Unless someone is deliberately taught this piece of imprudence,” how would that person come to believe such an absolute which is impossible to verify or prove, with or without science?
And on a blog I posted, Hate Not the Believer, where I made reference to a Melbourne cleric who advocates that beating your wife is acceptable, the same (female) Muslim commentator had this to say: “and in terms of the whole wife/husband..woman/man thing..there’s always a reason in Islam. cause we don’t see Islam as a religion…rather, it is the way of life” Is it normal for a women to allow herself to be beaten, because an archaic text in a religious book condones paternalistic thuggery? What sinister force compels a women to deny herself any self-respect, by accepting that there is always a reason for her being mistreated and maligned?
Time and time again you will hear clerics screaming from the pulpits (and now from every kind of media imaginable) that man is a worthless sinner. Man is damned and can only obtain “salvation” if he accepts the “word of god” and “gives his life” to one “creator” or the other. Some religions (one in particular) even go so far as to proclaim that only total and unrelenting “submission to god” is a pre-requisite for a “life in heaven,” whatever that is. And the key to making people believe such nonsense is in creating a terrifying fear of the unknown; the unknowable, unprovable, irrational, mother-of-all-fears, HELL. Other religions may not have the concept of HELL, which is probably why self-hatred is not that evident there. Such is the work of clerics; to perpetuate and maintain the fear of a punishment after death. For without this fear, people would have no need to hate themselves so much while they are alive.
Perhaps Ayaan Hirsi Ali was referring to secular Europe when she wrote so eloquently in her book Infidel, “Life is better in Europe than it is in the Muslim world because human relations are better, and one reason human relations are better is that in the West, life on earth is valued in the here and now, and individuals enjoy rights and freedoms that are recognized and protected by the state. To accept subordination and abuse because Allah willed it – that, for me would be self-hatred.”
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As a Christian, I can tell you that it is true that Christians do have a self-loathing demeanor at times, as a way to practice a false holiness. I can also tell you that that is not what God desires at all.
I, however, feel that you are completely seeing things in the wrong perspective. We ARE sinners. It’s a fact. It’s not a way for people to say, “Aw geez, gosh dudes we are SO messed up! Let’s beg this to this fake invisible being to make it all better”. That’s to me, what it is that you see, and you are entirely mistaken.
A good deal of people have come to Christ because their lives have become empty and worthless. They did their own thing and it led nowhere. So, in an act of desperation, sought God out.
This is what happened to me. I have actually died. I, at another time, attempted suicide. I went through all the questions, beliefs and everything else there could be to explain existence on Earth. I was even cynical like you and pretended that everyone else who had a belief system were just a bunch of whackos who needed to believer in something to have validation for their life. What a bunch of moronic losers. Thank God I’m not like them.
So, I get where you’re coming from. That does not mean that you’re right, but I don’t understand your “logic”.
Now, I don’t know why in the world you stick to some things that only SOME Christians say. I guess to make your arguments more effective.
All I can tell you is that I am a sane, healthy human being…not because of anything the world gave me or told me, but because of Christ. I am a healthier human being because of Jesus Christ. Yea, so I know, I’m one of those whacked out Jesus Freaks, blah, blah, blah…right? Yea, Christians are freaks. It’s true. We ACTUALLY believe that we’re sinners, in a world where people can’t even take responsibility for their actions, we believe that we are inherently bad. We KNOW the world has evil in it. We KNOW that people are capable of horrible things, no matter their race, religion, occupation, age, gender, etc. It’s not a way to have some insecurity about who we are, it’s a realization about ourselves. We know it. It doesn’t mean we go around depressed all the time. I actually have never been happier. Confessing that I’m a sinner was the best thing in my life, because it’s the truth. I am forgiven, and that’s the second truth. All of my sin is gone, and THAT’S why I am happy.
But I know you’ll read this and roll your eyes. It’s pretty much expected. I should just tell you, you don’t know everything about Christians, and please, stop pretending that you do.
By the way, you also have a religion. Everyone does. You’re not more enlightened than everyone else.
Hi Gabrielle, if you read the essay again, you might find that I don’t generalize about all Christians, but did stress on “so many.” I don’t pretend to know it all; I comment on what I observe and use empiricle data for other statements I make. You in fact are the one who is pretending to know it all by the absolutist statements you throw about with reckless abandon. Allow me to point them out:
1.) “I can also tell you that that is not what God desires at all.” How do you know. Did god tell you this? You read this in a holy book and your holy book is the correct one?
2.) “We ARE sinners. It’s a fact.” How do you know it’s a fact? Do you have empiricle scientific evidence for this? Did god tell you this? You read this in a holy book and your holy book is the correct one?
3.) “I am a healthier human being because of Jesus Christ.” How do you know this. What makes you think it is not the medication that made you healthier? Did Jesus tell you this himself?
You see Gabrielle, I also KNOW that the world has evil in it, just by simple observation, but I don’t believe that I’m inherently bad, just because others SEEM to be. I however, do take responsibility for my actions, and I don’t need some cosmic zombie to “lean on.” I DO IT ON MY OWN. A novel concept, don’t you think?
Look, I sympathize with you, as you have obvioulsy been through a pretty bad time in your life, but if you think you have found the answer to your problems in religion, you are just deluding yourself. It may be just a temporary solution, but if it works for you now, just ride along, but always look out for more…
Well, let me give you my rebuttal.
Isn’t saying “so many”, really generalizing? How do you know it’s “so many”? Perhaps it’s merely the way you choose to perceive the average Christian. I understand that it may not be what you intended to say, but it is most certainly easy to see that it is a way a person could read it. If it’s not what you meant, quite clearly and certainly I apologize, but can you not see my perception of the wording? I think if you read the words ” so many” in reference to atheists, you would also consider a statement to generalize, for lack of a better term, “your people”.
I also did not throw any statement out with “reckless abandon”. Cute way of putting it, but it’s simply untrue.
Now for your numerical bullet statements I shall respond:
1. I actually know that God doesn’t desire that because I’ve experience it. I experience God before I read this “holy book” as I know you sarcastically refer to it. When I became a Christian, I didn’t even have a Bible for an entire year. So, no, sorry that little holy book didn’t tell me a thing. It was an experience. An experience I cannot deny. You see, I believe God is real and speaks to everyone no matter where they are, if you are able to hear. Now, are some people mentally insane and think they hear God? Of course, but I don’t believe that that means that every person who claims to have heard God is crazy. I believe if there is a God, and He created us, then He would want to have a relationship with us, the same way a father who gave us life (as you so poignantly put it to Lana) would want to have a relationship with us. I do believe that.
I know it, because I know God.
2. When I was telling you that we are sinners, it’s because I do believe it’s a fact and I was relaying to you as a Christian. I was responding to you as a Christian, so you could see where Christians are coming from.
Again, NO, the holy book (your wording) did not tell me this, it was an experience I had when I was 18. For the record, I knew nothing about Christianity at the time and didn’t even know what John 3:16 meant (a very common verse that almost everyone knows, despite whatever their religion is). I knew nothing about the Bible and didn’t have a chance to read one.
My soul told me I was a sinner. Not the Bible. And yes, I know it’s a fact. God didn’t have tell me. I don’t believe people are walking around feeling bad about things because of ignorance, I think they are walking around knowing they have done things that are bad. I think just about everyone has regrets. I don’t believe it’s a program we have set in ourselves as a way to control others.
3. I’m not on medication.
I don’t believe in a religion. I think religion is ridiculous. I think religion is what Jesus fought against, like you’re doing. I think religion leads to a lot of bad things. I don’t put my hope in a religion.
Hi Gabrielle, thanks for the response. I do enjoy a debate. Here’s my rebuttal to your rebuttal:
Using the words “all religious folk” would be generalizing. I specifically used the word “many” because statistically from my interactions with religious folk, that has been my observation. I however concede that using the word “many” could create a wrong perception, and I apologise for not being more precise.
You cannot use your personal “experience” as a yardstick to make the assumption that god’s desires are now known to everyone. I experience many things myself, but I don’t go around telling people that because I experienced it, it must be true and that everyone else should also be experiencing it (and if they don’t, then there is something wrong with them). The fact that you believe something, does not make it true, no matter how hard your desire to believe. And your feeling that Christians believe certain things, does not make it a reality for everyone who is not Christian; whether you or some imaginary god “wills” it or not.
It’s not rational to think that because you believe something, no matter how intensely, that it is magically going to become the truth. You cannot will “facts” into being.
You (and many others before you) mention that god speaks to everyone and that you hear things. Perhaps you think you have some sort of super-power that allows you (and presumably others who are religious like you) to hear god. Please let me know the secret of gaining these powers, surely you would want me to also hear your god? (There is no other way to answer this claim kindly, without bringing schizophrenia into it.)
Finally, that comment about the medication. I did not mean for it to sound as if you had some sort of psycological problem that requires constant medication. I meant, the medication that was administered to you immediately after the unfortunate suicide incident. My apologies if there was any vagueness in the meaning.