Religious Hoax e-Mails – People Who Mocked God
We all receive them. The claims are invariably too fantastic to be true. Anyone with half a brain will see right through them, and yet recipients of these mails, keep forwarding them on. They usually contain some sort of promise of good luck or a veiled threat of misfortune should you not “forward on to 10 persons. I normally have a good laugh while reading, and then delete.
I received one the other day, the contents of which was really menacing, and which leads me to believe that the purveyors of religious filth are becoming really desperate to maintain this delusional thinking and are prepared to stoop really, really low to achieve this. These religious cretins have resorted to misquoting prominent persons, quoting out of context, twisting quotes to suit the occasion, disingenuously using statistics and even propagating blatant lies. I have even been told by some that lying for God is OK.
See what you make of this before reading my responses below (for the sake of utilizing space optimally, I have copied and pasted the contents of the mail without the eye-catching font size, paragraphing, color scheme and other formatting):
DID YOU KNOW THESE FACTS? I SURE DIDN’T TILL NOW
Death is certain but the
Bible speaks about untimely death!
Make a personal reflection about
this…..
Very interesting, read until the end…..
It is written in the
Bible (Galatians 6:7):
‘Be not deceived; God is not mocked:
for
whatsoever a man sow, that shall he also reap.
Here are some men and women
who mocked God :John Lennon (Singer):
Some years before, during his interview with
an American Magazine, he said:
‘Christianity will end, it will disappear. I
do not have to argue about that. I am certain. Jesus was OK, but his subjects
were too simple, today we are more famous than Him’ (1966).
Lennon, after
saying that the Beatles were more famous than Jesus Christ, was shot six times.Tancredo Neves (President of Brazil ):
During the
Presidential campaign, he said if he got 500,000 votes from his party, not even
God would remove him from Presidency.
Sure he got the votes, but he got sick
a day before being made President, then he died.Cazuza (Bi-sexual Brazilian composer, singer and poet):
During A show in Canecio ( Rio de Janeiro ), while smoking his cigarette, he
puffed out some smoke into the air and said:’God, that’s for you.’
He died
at the age of 32 of LUNG CANCER in a horrible manner.The man who built the Titanic
After the construction of
Titanic, a reporter asked him how safe the Titanic would be. With an ironic tone
he said: ‘Not even God can sink it’
The result: I think you all know what
happened to the TitanicMarilyn Monroe (Actress)
She was visited by Billy Graham
during a presentation of a show. He said the Spirit of God had sent him to
preach to her. After hearing what the Preacher had to say, she said: ‘I don’t
need your Jesus’.
A week later, she was found dead in her
apartmentBon Scott (Singer)
The ex-vocalist of the AC/DC. On one of
his 1979 songs he sang: ‘Don’t stop me; I’m going down all the way, down the
highway to hell’.
On the 19th of February 1980, Bon Scott was found dead, he
had been choked by his own vomit.Campinas (IN 2005)
In Campinas , Brazil a group of friends,
drunk, went to pick up a friend…..
The mother accompanied her to the car
and was so worried about the drunkenness of her friends and she said to the
daughter holding her hand, who was already seated in the car: ‘My Daughter, Go
With God And May He Protect You. She responded: ‘Only If He (God) Travels In The
Trunk, Cause Inside Here…..It’s Already Full ‘
Hours later, news came by
that they had been involved in a fatal accident, everyone had died, the car
could not be recognized what type of car it had been, but surprisingly, the
trunk was intact. The police said there was no way the trunk could have remained
intact. To their surprise, inside the trunk was a crate of eggs, none was
brokenChristine Hewitt (Jamaican Journalist and entertainer) said the
Bible (Word of God) was the worst book ever written. In June 2006 she was found
burnt beyond recognition in her motor vehicle.Many more important people have forgotten that there is no other name
that was given so much authority as the name of Jesus. Many have died, but only
Jesus died and rose again, and he is still alive.‘Jesus’
PS: If it was a joke, you would have sent it to everyone. So are
you going to have courage to send this?.
I have done my part, Jesus said ‘If
you are embarrassed about me, I will also be embarrassed about you before my
father.’You are my 8 in 8 seconds. I am not breaking this. No
way!
I’M TOLD THIS WORKS!!!!! Bishop T.D. Jakes ‘8 Second Prayer.’ Just
repeat this prayer and see how God moves!!
‘Lord, I love you and I need you,
come into my heart, and bless me, my family, my home, and my friends, in Jesus’
name. Amen.’
Pass this message to 8 people {EXCEPT YOU AND ME}.You will
receive a miracle tomorrow. I Hope that you don’t ignore and let God bless you.
The Real Facts
The very first line is a lie, because what follows is anything but the facts.
Death is always untimely, period. I’ve never heard any dead person saying his or her death was timely. An observer however may give his/her opinion about the timeliness.
Here is what John Lennon really said: “Christianity will go. It will vanish and shrink. I needn’t argue with that; I’m right and I will be proved right. We’re more popular than Jesus now; I don’t know which will go first — rock and roll or Christianity. Jesus was all right, but his disciples were thick and ordinary. It’s them twisting it that ruins it for me.” There is nothing wrong with this analysis by Lennon, and as one poster on Snopes.com (the urban myths site) so rightfully pointed out, at the time Lennon made this comment, you could not find any massive throngs of people, screaming in excitement, queuing up for hours to get into church. Incidentally, why did this vindictive God take 14 years to punish Lennon for making the quote in 1966? Maybe he had his hands full punishing all the other blasphemers in the world, and could only get around to Lennon in 1980. The truth is, Lennon achieved greatness before he died and his memory lives on – what more can you ask from life?
Let’s assume for the sake of argument that Tancredo Neves did make the statement about God as claimed. And yes, he did become ill a day before his inauguration as President and died about a month later from abdominal complications. His death was followed by an outpouring of grief from the citizens of Brazil who regarded him as a liberator from the previous dictatorial regimes. In honour of Tancredo Neves, he is listed as an official President of Brazil although he never took office, and the Tancredo Neves International Airport in Belo Horizonte is named after him. He died, but his memory and honour lives on. This guy had more honour than any imaginary vindictive God. The truth is, Neves achieved greatness before he died and his memory lives on – what more can you ask from life?
Let’s assume for the sake of argument that Cazuza did make the statement about God as claimed. Yes, Cazuza (real name Agenor Miranda Araujo Neto) was openly bisexual and died from an AIDS related illness at the age of 32. Cazuza’s honesty about his AIDS infection helped to change public perceptions about the disease. He is considered as a leading example of Brazilian Rock Music and is still an inspiration to latter day artists. Yet again, an honourable and revered person whose memory lives on. Yep, he’s still smoking!!! And all ye faithful can put that in your pipes and smoke it. The truth is, Cazuza achieved greatness before he died and his memory lives on – what more can you ask from life?
The man who was responsible for building the Titanic probably did not say “Not even God can sink it,” but lets assume he did. So to punish him, this vindictive God causes the ship to sink, resulting in the deaths of more than 1500 people, including the shipbuilder, Thomas Andrews. Now why do you believe in this monster again? At the time, the Titanic was a marvel of engineering. Thomas Andrews achieved greatness before he died and his memory lives on – what more can you ask from life?
So what if Marilyn Monroe told Billy Graham she did not need his Jesus? Any intelligent person who understood that religion is a drug would have said as much. Why would she want any more drugs? Those she was already hooked on were adequate and so the Jesus-drug was not necessary. Anyway by this time, Monroe had already achieved greatness and will forever be remembered – what more can you ask from life?
Rock stars such as Bon Scott of AC/DC are artists who make use of poetic lyrics to express themselves. To say that he actually meant literally that he was “going down the highway to hell” is rather disingenuous. Claims of death by choking in his own vomit are conspiracy theories. Scott, an asthmatic, actually died of alcohol poisoning, while sleeping in a car, after a night of heavy drinking. By this time, Scott had already achieved greatness and his memory lives on. His grave in Australia is not only the most visited there, but is listed as a heritage site. Has anyone visited Jesus grave recently?
The alleged Campinas accident is the stuff of urban legend. Notice that no names or dates are provided to verify the incident. But at least we now know that the safest place to store eggs, is in the trunk of a car.
Christine Hewitt was absolutely correct to say that the bible was the worst book ever written. The kind of filth portrayed in the bible as the word of some supernatural power that has dominion over us all, cannot be regarded as good by any intelligent, rational, thinking person. Hewitt was probably killed by some religious maniac, but we will never know. At the time of her death she had already achieved prominence in society and will be forever remembered for the good work she did.
In the end, the authors of this hate-mail have merely proven that their imaginary God is not only conceited and vengeful, but downright incompetent as well. This imaginary murderer has failed dismally to snuff out the greatness of those who have been perceived to have rejected and mocked him.
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I stumbled on this. I was just having a conversation with a co-worker about this the other day. Good read. Thanks for shareing.
So the email presents distorted information…
God is the Creator. He is just, not vengeful. He gave mankind free will – which is too often misused.
You comments give the impression that your mind is closed to God. You cannot know God until you seek Him, just as you cannot experience deep water supporting you until you get into it.
You might be interested to read what other people have said – http://www.quotelady.com/subjects/christianity.html
i had just got his email today and upon reading it, i was thinking are any of these true, who found out this info, why cant i actually find any of this info out. so being the regular person i did pass it on, but with hesitation. now i do believe in god, with out hope and faith what is there to live for, but i really dont believe everything that is in the bible. how many times has it been re-written, who re-write it and why? believe in your own faith and what you feel and most people can get through any situation.
**for the person who said that he is closed minded, he is entitled to his opinions and beliefs, people like you who try so hard to persue, actually make people pull away. if someone pulls your arm and you dont want them too, what does a normal person due, pull away, keep that in mind.
I got that same email today and was pretty disgusted. I am a follower of the teachings of Jesus Christ and when I read about people propagating the idea that God senselessly kills people who mock him it upsets me. This is not only taking these people’s quotes out of context but also the Bible verse that it bases its claims on. This kind of BS is largely responsible for the negative connotations that go along with the “Christian” or “Religious” label. Not only do the nuts that write this dishonor themseleves and the Lord they claim to worship, but they keep others from listening to the teachings of Jesus Christ. And it pains me to see that no Atheist or Agnostic can explain why not to be religious quite as well as a “Christian” can. In all I take the same stance as you regarding email-spam, it is crap – If you want the truth pick up a Bible, idiotic email propaganda will only hurt everyone involved.
Life……..What is the purpose of it? ..it is: “To know God, to love Him and to serve Him….and be with Him eternally.” But WIGLET is right when He said…….”You cannot know God until you seek Him.” He is there, just waiting for you and me to call Him. Free will. We can choose to love or hate Him.
I am 43 years old and I am still trying to get to know Him so I can love HIM and serve Him. “Seek thee the kingdom of God and all its’s righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you. May God bless us all!!
The faithfull are too busy “seeking” for the non-existent. Concentrate on being good, and enjoying what life has to offer – you only get one chance at it. That’s what your purpose in life should be. Time is precious – don’t waste it forever seeking that which is not there…
Who ever this is who made this post, and comments. God have mercy on your soul. You keep on mocking his word, and all those that believe on him, your life will end just as those in the e-mail. Whether you believe the Bible or not, don’t mock it, that’s a dangerous road to travel, and only hell awaits at the end of it. I’m a very civil person, and willing to speak to any who have any questions about christianity, and what/why we believe the Bible. Just had to add this word of caution. If you keep down this path, and you end up with cancer, or an uncurable descese I want you to remember this, and remember that God is a mercyful God, but he is also a God of judgement.
-micnatbench@gmail.com
Anno, I will continue mocking his so-called word if it is used to make threats upon myself.
Believe whatever your bible tells you, but please keep it to yourself. When you start using the threats contained in the bible to exhort the public to toe the Christian line, then you are intruding in my personal space. Don’t expect me to be nice about it.
I wrote about the email, because I don’t like being threatened by supposed gods or their followers.
The chances of me contracting cancer are pretty high, but I don’t think believing in all the gods in the world is going to prevent me from becoming a statistic. If I do eventually get cancer or some other disease, would it make you feel vindicated?
Ah, I see. I appoligize for any feeling of attack. I personally do not forward those messages. I was forwarded one and searched the contents and came across your blog, and it hurt me to see that people like yourself are hurt by other Christians. Christians shouldn’t do that, and the Bible teaches us not to chasten others, that’s not our job. Our job as Christians is the be ‘Christ-like’ which is what the word Christian means. So anyone who may attack you with the Bible, and their beliefs, they’re wrong, they shouldn’t do that. You don’t go around forcing what you think, and believe on others and they should to you either. I will speak from personaly testimony, (first hand witness) My aunt, her and I were very close, the was diagnosed with cancer in the lymphnodes and after prayer, and faith she was healed. She didn’t have to under-go any treatment. The Bible says, “Lay your hands on the sick and they shall recover” she did. That’s the reason we believe in God, and the Bible, because God has proven it. Another example; My mother use to work in an office where she did alot of fileing. In the fileing rooms they have step-stools that roll, and are on springs so that when you step on them the lower to the ground and don’t roll while someone’s on them. One time when she was helping someone file, she step close to the stool unaware her foot was under it, and the other lady step on the stool and it sliced my moms ligament in the front of her foot. The ligament that controls all movement, it was severed. She went to the doctor and they said they would have to do surgry because that ligament won’t heal it’s self. So when church came on sunday she was prayed for, and when she went back to the doctor, able to walk. The doctor with his own mouth said “Miss, I can’t explain it, but you have a brand new ligament in your foot.” If that happened to you, you wouldn’t have any reason not to believe God. So that’s how I/We/My family/My Church know that God is real. There is only one God, Jesus Christ. Thanks for your response, I hope this helps your understanding a little better.
Anno, I’m glad your Aunt is now OK. However, if you believe that it was through some form of divine intervention, then I suppose I cannot change your mind about your conviction.
However, personally, I would try to find some other explanation for the apparent miraculous cure. There usually is a more scientific or natural explanation, that is oftentimes not readily revealed. I don’t simply attribute anything to divine intervention, because it may be easier or more comfortable to do, or less troublesome on the mind.
The truth is out there…
I suppose you wouldn’t change yours either, so no need me go on. But it’s been a nice little chat. Be safe, take care.
wiglet writes: So the email presents distorted information…
Yes it does, not to mention several outright lies! Apparently wiglet sees nothing wrong with lying for Jesus.
Yeah, Jim, it never ceases to amaze me that we have people with such primitive thinking in the modern era. There are of course many such attempts by the religious to spread utter lies to keep the dying faith alive. I’m just glad that there are a growing number of people in the world such as yourself who see through this deception.
Hi Lenny. I rarely get a Christianity-based email that is not lying or manipulative. When I receive them, I check them out and respond to my Christian friend who sent it and explain why it was wrong or inappropriate. People who send these kinds of emails are either not Christians, or they don’t understand their God. I have been atheist, agnostic, and into New Age, and self-doctrine. I also used the think the way you do about the bible. One day I gave up all of what I thought I knew and asked God, if He was out there, to reveal Himself to me. Wow, what a response I received. Scripture started coming at me out of the woodwork, and at 1st I was repelled, but then I realized that I was getting my answer, and when I picked up the bible to read it with new eyes, with humble eyes, God revealed it to me in the way it was meant to be seen. My life has moved from the ordinary to the extraordinary.
You said a few times that “so-and-so achieved greatness and their memory lives on – what more can you ask for?” I can tell you will all assuredness that there is way more that you can ask for if you seek God. I consider those people you mentioned to have accomplished so little with their fame and partying. In the new eyes I have been given, these people were underachievers where it really counts. I hope for you that you are able to release your anger and rebellion and anger — it is only a misunderstanding based on wrong information. I know how you feel, I’ve been there.
Hi Brenda, I encounter many people on discussion boards that recount the same or similar experience as you claim. They all have one thing in common: their new-found conviction is remarkable to behold. Born-again Christians are more vociferous in defense of their new-found faith than the ordinary believer, and sadly are more inclined to wallow in their delusion as well.
Happily, I have had the opposite experience. I started out as an Atheist, dabbled in religion for a number of years, but returned to Atheism because it was the logical thing to do. I sincerely hope you realize how you’re being scammed and get out unscathed. Good luck…
our world is really full of sin….our God is not deaf, though we cant see Him, but He is actually somewhere, anywhere or around us, what we sow is what we reap, so i believe in that.whatever it is, the truth is, God wont lead us to destruction, death, only satan does…God wants us to follow His steps, only He gave us the freewill, we are free to choose whatever way we want,its our own option, to love God and live peacefully or love satan and be a victim of the world’s cruel denomination….
Hi Shane the blog was about religious hoax emails. Your response is full of meaningless cliches. Tell me something new or prove your cliches are true.
“At the beginning there was the Word – at the end just the Cliche” – Stanislaw Jerzy Lec
Hi again Lenny. Today I remembered your site and checked back for a response. But I read over what I had posted, and wow, those last couple sentences I wrote sounded quite arrogant! I’m sorry I wrote that.
In response to your response…”They all have one thing in common: their new-found conviction is remarkable to behold. (etc.).”
I think I know how you feel. In fact, it used to make me want to puke to hear anything about anyone being born-again. Imagine how sheepish I felt when it happened with me! I was suddenly embarassed that I used to ridicule people who said they were born again, and now this was the state I was in.
“Ordinary believer,” is an oxymoron. Just because a person calls themself a Christian, doesn’t mean they really are. And you don’t encounter the born-again experience while dabbling in religion, hence why it seemed more logical to return to atheism. As Jesus said, “Except a man be born again, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.” This doesn’t mean where you’ll go when you die. The Kingdom of God is now, and you can’t enter in except through the born again experience.
Dabbling in religion is not being born again.
Attending church is not being born again.
Having Christian parents is not being born again.
Saying you believe in God/Jesus is not being born again.
Reading the bible is not being born again.
Praying is not being born again.
The best I know how to describe being born again right now at this time, is…letting pride/ego take a backseat, shutting up for a moment, and letting God reveal himself, after which you receive a new set of eyes. Old desires and habits begin to drop away (destructive ones that had always been too difficult to drop), and new desires and habits gradually replace the old if the born-again believer continues to seek God. Revelations continue to come, and the old self continues to fall away. Life becomes increasingly full of signs, miracles, wonders, prophesies, healings, and so forth… The Kingdom of God.
I don’t expect you to believe what I say, but I thought it appropriate to respond.
I went to the website you mentioned in another post …jesusneverexisted… there is just so much twisting and taking out of context and wrong assumptions and bias, that I was thinking maybe I would start addressing the material, one thing at a time to that site owner. I haven’t read anything on there yet that hasn’t been twisted far away from it’s actual meaning and context in the bible. In order to think the bible actually reads that way, you have to really really really want it to say those things and read it with that bias. I’m not sure if I should spend that kind of time and energy correcting all those misrepresentations. I assume he would just twist all of my words as well. How do you talk to someone who has such a barrier constructed all around them? I don’t know if it’s possible.
Take care. Brenda
Hi again Brenda. I maintain that I am born-again; a born again-atheist that is. I was not offended by your comments, not even the last few lines. Actually you are correct – I like all people harbor anger for one reason or the other. I use my blogs to vent and release that anger; you might say I write my anger away. I find no need to release it violently; I detest violence of any kind. So you see, I do not need a God or religion to shape my morality; I use logic and reason only.
Byron Daneluis said “Religion provides the solace for the turmoil it creates.” When you truly understand this simple truth, you will understand why I am an Atheist.
To believe for one minute human beings, wild life, plant life etc just happened without God you are not using the brains God gave you and one day you will discover this. The Bible tells us that “every knee will bow” and honor Jesus Christ. That means YOU too, even if you are in hell.
Hi Sallie, the post was about hoax religious mails. You’re commenting on Evolution vs Creationism or Intelligent Design as it is fashionably called these days. In case you haven’t heard, there is valid scientific proof for Evolution.
If you prefer to live your life on bended knees submitting yourself to brainwashing, that’s your choice. Does not say much for what goes on in your “brains” but there you have it. Don’t care much for what your bible says; it’s hardly a good guide for morality, now is it?. And where exactly is hell again?
Friends please read & re-evaluate the “The Real Facts” again for yourselves. Do you really think they’re REAL???
When I read the writings of disbelievers that put down God and say He doesn’t exist and so forth, I am more and more truly amazed. Not at their writings but how they prove the love of God. The worse they write the more they prove His love. How can God love people who hate Him so much? He does. How could Jesus die for people that hate Him so much? He did.
The Bible explains your views. It says in 1 Corinthians 1:18 (New Century Version)”The teaching about the cross is foolishness to those who are being lost, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.”
Wayne, I don’t hate god; how can I hate that which does not exist. You don’t get it do you? You assume I hate based on my exposure of the irrational beliefs that seem to cling to theist’s minds like a parasite. Get a grip man; read properly and understand before making more irrational conclusions…
For someone who “doesn’t hate God” you sure are defensive over the fact. There is no fence sitting on this matter. Love Him or hate Him. The Bible says you are either for God or against Him. But you would have to believe in the Bible to believe that.
I have got a grip. I have a grip on the Saviour Jesus Christ and I won’t let go. I have read properly and while I don’t understand how people choose to believe in something like evolution, God gave you that power of choice. He loves you enough to not make you a robot and to allow you to freely choose.
I do have to agree with you that no one can prove that God exists. Christianity is a faith factor. If you had proof, you would have no faith. Your proof will come someday that not only God does exist but that Jesus exists and that indeed he did die for you. But unfortunately, if you have waited for this proof, it is too late.
Oh, before you start into eternal hell fire, I don’t believe in eternal hell fire. That isn’t Biblical. But a further discussion on that would be doctrine and you have to get to the point of accepting God and His love before you can get to doctrine.
Wayne, I’m not really concerned with what the bible says; I prefer to read about verifiable facts, not fiction. Have you ever considered that religion (especially the Abrahamic religions, Islam and Christianity) in reality, teaches (no, demands that) people to hate themselves. These religions make no bones about the fact that man is a dirty sinner, who can never be “good” until he accepts god or Christ or Allah, or whatever. It teaches that you must hate what you are. You are now projecting this hatred of yourself onto me, claiming that I hate this god, whereas I have told you repeatedly that I don’t believe that a god exists. Isn’t that pathetic.
Strange how the power of choice you claim to have, really translates to “choose Christ or else.”
You know what, I have faith that there is a giant teapot floating around in space. Nobody has seen it yet, so nobody can prove that it’s not there. Do you think it’s normal (or sane) for someone to believe that there is a giant teapot floating around in space? Now since there is a giant teapot up there, I have absolute faith that it must be of use; so I firmly believe that the flying spaghetti monster and the green goblin have regular tea parties. Would you consider me rational for having such a belief which is based purely on faith? Now apply this to your situation. Where does that leave your faith in faith?
Lenny, I must correct you on a point. God doesn’t “demand” you to hate yourself. I don’t hate myself nor you for that matter. But I do hate the sin in my life. The sin I have in my life separates me from my Heavenly Father. It is Jesus’ death on the cross and His atoning blood that cleanses me from my sin. Without Jesus, there is no hope.
If I deny the fact that the Jews were killed by the German army does that make that fact fiction? Or if I don’t buy into the fact that the Rwandan Genocide of the Tutsis and Hutu happened does that change history? No it doesn’t. What about if I write 10 books and get 1000 people to believe me that it didn’t happen, does that change history? No.
Deny Jesus’ life all you want. It doesn’t change the fact that Jesus did come to this earth from Heaven, lived, died, rose again and will be returning very soon.
He died to pardon me, you (yes you) and everyone else on this earth from their sins as long as they accept Him. John 3:16 would be inserted here. You have to accept his gift. He will not force it on you. Simple choice.
I’ll tel you where my faith is; rather I’ll let the old hymn tell you where my faith is…
My hope is built on nothing less
Than Jesus’ blood and righteousness.
I dare not trust the sweetest frame,
But wholly trust in Jesus’ Name.
On Christ the solid Rock I stand,
All other ground is sinking sand.
Amen
Thank you, Lenny, for our discussion on your blog. We have reached a yes-he-is-no-he-isn’t stage where neither seem to be accepting the other’s point of view.
While I do respect you for your firm stance I doesn’t understand it nor agree with it. It is my prayer that someday soon the Holy Spirit will soften your heart and that you’ll accept Jesus as your Savior. He is waiting for you. You just have to answer His call.
Wayne, you are again twisting my statements to suit your narrow world view. I did not say “god” demands that you hate yourself – I said your religion (or religious teachers for that matter) demand that you hate yourself. Big difference. Once again, I don’t believe in the existence of a god, so it would be pretty dumb to assert that a non-existenet entity can demand anything.
I’m not sure what your point is with the paragraph on denial, but it is rather disingenuous. Equating the fiction, based on the primitive beliefs of stone-age man, recorded in the bible with genuinely recorded historical events such as the Jewish persecution during WW2, is rather lame and smacks of brain-washing. If you are a bible literalist, then your delusion is complete.
My firm stance is based on rationality and reason; yours is based on anything but…
You are right, I can see that I will not convince you to accept reason as your primary source for interpretation of the world around you. I also don’t think that you are a “bad” person, and you certainly don’t mean any harm; so I will leave you to your narrow beliefs then…
Wayne:
If you are a follower of Jesus Christ then you would know that arguing with people about religion is NOT the way to show them the light of the Lord. Give it up to God, dude. As the bible states, “dust your shoes off and walk down the road”. Talk to those who will listen and stop preaching. You are part of the problem, not the solution.
Go in peace.
haha. You have to get better sources and opinions than this. Because criticizing an email and writing what you think about it, is simply not enough. With out a God we have no purpose no reason to live, it wouldnt be morally wrong to kill a person because without God we wouldnt know it was wrong. Everyone would just get away with everything. And trust, life without God is filled with grief, sadness and no hope. It doesnt matter what political fundementalist’s say about God. the only way to truly know Jesus, is by spending time with him yourself. Other than him, life is meaningless.
fearless,
why don’t you suggest “better sources and opnions” and I promise to look at them (critically off course – something you might want to learn how to do).
Only you can give purpose and meaning to your life, not some invisible creature living in the sky. If you need someone else to provide meaning and purpose in your life, it is indicative of a weak, pitifull character.
If god is indeed around why is there so much killing going on since you say that without god we wouldn’t know it was wrong to kill? Then if people are still killing, doesn’t that mean that your god condones it. I think you need to re-examine your urgument – it is really flawed.
The same goes for grief and sadness. Why is there so much of it in the world? If as you claim, there is indeed a god, why does he allow the grief and sadness.
Logically speaking, killing, grief and sadness are actually arguments for there being no god. Get it?
Lenny,
The why does your God allow this that and the other question that you asked is a point that many others have been trying make. God allows free will. One can actually do whatever he or she desires. You nor anyone else has to accept Him but it does not change His existence. God never promises a perfect earthly life if you follow Him. He says you will encounter trials and tribulations. He doesn’t even say that a person will have a bad earthly life if he or she doesn’t follow Him. However, as Christians, we build our hopes on things eternal and we live now so that we may live again.
In reference to the e-mail, God in the old testament would wipe people out at will; however, when He sent Jesus to die for us, we were granted forgiveness and mercy for ALL of our sins. We will all have to answer for our how we have lived but that will be on judgment day. Any sin one commits is forgiven as long as one repents. You call Him a “monster” but He is anything but. He is kind and merciful and loves us all.
I have a biology degree with a chemistry minor and have taught those subjects and earth science from the middle school to the collegiate level. I absolutely love science. I have an above average IQ and am a logical thinker…in the same breath I can tell you that I believe in God and Christ. To you that may seem counter intuitive, but I know science has yet to prove it all. And where there is the unknown about how this planet came to be or life on it came to be, I let my faith take over. True, we have theories in science, but that takes faith and belief too because we don’t know! Honestly, that is the same with God…no one knows for a fact, but it is faith and a belief. And as cliche’ as it may be, I would rather live like there is a God and die and there is none than to live like there isn’t one and die and find out there really was!
You do not believe in God, nor the bible and the teachings of Christ and that is your choice. I do not agree with your choice but I do respect your beliefs. I would never dare to insult your intelligence or anything of that nature because that is opposite of what Christ would do. Oftentimes Christianity is judged by the acts of “Christians” and not by the acts of Christ which is all that matters and I think that is where Christianity gets a bad name. The things some people do “in the name of Jesus” (such as this e-mail) would turn anyone away. True Christians do not aim to judge, condemn, degrade, embarrass or threaten anyone for anything that they do. Christ loves us all and will forgive us all…it’s the people who do not love and forgive all! I also would never tell you not to believe what you believe or demand that you believe in God or else because I feel that no one should impose his or her beliefs on someone else nor disrespect people because of conflicting views. I do thank you for your post and I thank you for reading my response.
WOW,
I appreciate that you tried to provide a real rational response; however it does not convince me in the least. Your arguments have been listed ad nauseum on countless other resources, and have always been shown to be flawed.
One of the fundamental mistakes of all believers is that they assume that science is trying to disprove the existence of a supernatural presence in the universe. The fact that there is NO scientific evidence for this supernatural presence in no way means that science has proved that it does not exist. The onus is not on scientists to prove such existence. The onus is on believers to produce “real” scientific evidence for such a presence, and not the pseudo-scientific gobbledy-gook they are presenting as evidence currently.
As a degreed biologist, you should know better than to state that scientific theories are based on faith. That is utter nonsense. Please reference the Defenders Guide to Science and Creationism for an explanation of what a theory really is.
I thank you for your input. However, please try to do justice to your chosen field of science.
Lenny, I feel sorry for you and will pray for you. You don’t need to respond, because I already know what your response will be.
You already know what my response will be? So which psychic school are you attending?
It would be more appropriate if you felt sorry for yourself.
Well then, let me know when you have passed psychic school.
No Lenny, you are twisting my words, which is a surprise because I can see in other responses that you do not like it when it is done to you. I did not say science attempts to disprove the existence of anything, science attempts to prove things and answer questions or solve problems and in doing so sometimes things are disproved but that is generally not the intention. Additionally, I did not say that theories are based on faith, I said that they take faith and belief because there is a degree of uncertainty with some of them. According to Merriam-Webster, belief, which is a synonym of faith means “conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence. While I do appreciate your attempt to “teach me” what a scientific theory is, it was unnecessary because I picked that up in elementary school. However, I would appreciate you not presuming to know what sort of “injustice” I contribute to my profession. As a scientist, I teach, explore and do science. I teach my students about facts, evidence, research and challenging ideas. They learn about the Big Bang and the cell theory and evolution with all of the concrete evidence to back it up. In a science classroom there is no room for creationism. Even when students ask me I tell them not to confuse that with science. I simply stated that in my own personal life I choose to believe in a Supreme Being but would never impose my beliefs on anyone. That is my choice and it should be respected just like I respect your choice not to believe.
Thanks again, I really have enjoyed reading your post and responses! Take care
Hi again WOW (sounds strange
)
There was no intention to “twist” your words. I just made a blanket general statement about believers, which I admit in hindsight may not be true about all believers, but certainly a vast majority.
I construed “take faith” to mean “based on faith.” I personally see very little difference, if any – semantics? If I have mistaken your meaning, I am suitably chastised.
While I appreciate that you teach science “correctly” in the classroom, I am finding it hard to understand how you can believe something that goes against science in your private life. However, if you can manage to do this quite comfortably (apparently), I see no harm in it.
Thanks for your response.
“What more can you ask from life?” — Why should I ask anything from this life? Sure money, fame, or respect are awesome, but do they help any of those dead people anymore or will they help me when I die? It’s the next life that I am asking from; it’s the one I am concerned about.
Well, going through life in abject poverty, misery, pain and suffering is surely not going to help you when you die either; in fact it will contribute to your quicker death.
My suggestion to you therefore is to give up all your material wealth and comfort, because you seem so sure that it will ease your entry into the “after-life.”
Hi Lennie,
Your blogs great. This post has been going on for some time. Anyway I took this from a post of mine and want to paste it here.
‘Why would God, a God of Love, have created man in his own image with about five thousand genetic mistakes that have played havoc with our health. Diseases that we will soon be able to correct with gene transfers or genetic engineering. All this does not prove that there is or is not a God but just that he is not the God we have created for ourselves.The Church through the ages has taught that God’s creation is perfect and that the faults in man are through man’s sin This can’t be right because through our own ingenuity we can correct these faults.Things aren’t wrong or right they just are.’
Hi Terry,
Right on the mark. Yes, we have created a dual-purpose god; an inadequate god to reflect our inadequacies, and a perfect god to make it impossible for us to attain that perfection. What if evolution had dealt us the perfect hand? Would we have need for a perfect god? Or would we have created an imperfect god to guide us to imperfection?
Despite the little untruths within this email, it still gets the point across for christianity. God gives us all free will, and we can either choose to serve him and go down the long and narrow path that few travel down. The other choice is way to easy to accomplish and that is to continue to serve this secular world and do anything to advance yourself, until you die. Then what happens? I know what happens and everyone should understand that the time after death is eternity.Why do people sin? The answer is simple its because it’s fun. Just because somethings fun doesn’t mean its moral everyone would agree. In my opinion these christian emails are made to get peoples attention and get people to start to think out of their comfort zone, but they always give you a prayer of salvation which really matters.
Hi Charlie,
“Little untruths?” That’s the understatement of the year. Why is there a need to “spread the word of a god” through lies. Is that not a sin?
Your assumption that fun is immoral is literally frightening. And how do you know what happens after death? Have you died and come back again? Wow, talk about getting attention!!!
The theory of relativity, prove it. We know that it’s real, but it takes faith to believe in it. Don’t you understand that there are just some things beyond all human comprehension. Wouldn’t you be sorry if you died and you were horribly wrong and the bible was all true? Well at that point it would be too late. Not to mention all the prophesys that have been already fufilled through the bible. You also misunderstood me, I didn’t say having fun is immoral I said it’s easy to sin because its fun.
Hi Charlie,
Since Einstein first proposed the theory of relativity, many scientists coming after him, now understand it better than he did and have made corrections and improvements. That is what science is all about. It is always open to correction and improvement. No so with religion, which claims to “know everything about everything.” And it does not take faith to believe what can be demonstrated to be true, to be in fact true. Demonstrate that religious claims are true and are verifiable through exhaustive testing?
I’m beginning to think that some things are indeed beyond human comprehension; like why people insist on believing things that cannot proved to be true. It just makes no sense.
Ever heard about Pascal’s Wager? Well, I for one prefer to live my life NOT worrying about things, for which there is no proof.
Finally, you do seem to have a problem understanding that non-believers can actually tell right from wrong, without having had a holy book rammed down their throats. It may come as a surprise to you, but I don’t go around murdering, robbing, pillaging and raping, because I think it would be “fun.” You don’t have the moral high ground simply because you are religious. For crying out loud, the prison populations of the world, are statistically proven to consist largely of people who are believers (religious) people. Atheists make up a very small percentage of convicts.
Dear Lenny,
I happened to read the same exact email you posted and I couldn’t quite believe it myself. I’m a pretty logical person; I believe the Big Bang theory, evolution makes a shitload of sense to me,and etc. However, (and here’s where it gets fucked up) I’m Catholic. What I’m attempting to say is that I’m not trying to scold you for being an athiest as other Christians have done. If there’s no god, then there’s no god. End of discussion. I’ve seriously contemplated the existence of a deity and at first it seemed outlandish to me. You know, all the religious reasonings such as, “Why does god let people die?” and all those questions. But with time, I came up with my own reasoning that god, if existant, is not some man with a gray beard in the sky that strikes lightning bolts down at earth to kill others, nor some spaghetti monster, but a… presence, if you will. Nothing really tangible, but something like… a thought. Humans think all the time but thoughts aren’t tangible; we can’t fully affirm them or disprove them (cogito ergo sum falls short here, because books can’t think, but they do exist, unless this is like the Matrix and in that case, I shouldn’t have taken that red pill this morning). They just exist. When I go to church every sunday I tend to get a bit bored, I must confess. Others feel a power unlike anything they’ve ever felt. But it pains me to see the hypocrites who say they are “Christ followers” but do not live by his teachings. All I can really say is that my belief in god, humanity, life, and basically everything in general has been shaken many times before. But I’ve found comfort in a god whose existence is obviously questioned, and I’ve learned I don’t need to feel or see something to define its existence. Knowledge is not the meaning of life, the meaning of life is to live. Do whatever you want. Trying to comprehend everything is impossible, even with the help of a god or a theory that makes a lot of sense; true wisdom is precious and is not to be wasted, but as to what extent? Would I like to know everything possible? Yeah, that would come in handy. But would I slave and toil for my life to understand the universe (or universes)? No. Some things are left to be untouched, for they remain pristine that way. Doing anything in extreme is idiotic. Die hard believers are as bad as die hard athiests because both parties would like to debate and possibly escalate to an all-out war to prove their point of view. If I could find an athiest that didn’t preach about athiesm and a believer who didn’t preach about their beliefs I’d say that’s progress. I mind my own business and I think that a person’s beliefs are private and are not to be infringed upon. Therefore, these emails near the extent of uselessness. It is true that Jesus said to spread his teachings, but I have some thought that this went WAY out of hand. The Crusades were the cause of thousands of deaths, and screwed up the Christian – Muslim relationship. But these wars allowed us to get a glimpse of Asian trading, and spices became huge in Europe, leading to mass exploration and more exploitation of the conquered areas. Eventually, Europe caught up with China, and for a while, surpassed it. This leads to advances in technology. And if the crusades were never fought, this might not have happened. I think I might be able to say that it is, although remotely, possible to believe in a deity and still be a rational person. And I don’t want to be condescending, but here’s some advice: if you make your beliefs public, for everyone wo agrees with you, there will most likely be someone to vehemently oppose it and make your life a bitch. Unless you like to debate. So I try to keep myself restrained in my beliefs and keep an open mind with whatever anyone has to say. Lenny, I hope you voice your opinion, and, I know this will sound gay, but “Don’t Stop Believin’” (that there is no god). Thanks for letting me comment and you’ve got a great website here.
Hi Alex,
Sounds reasonable enough. I think what all atheists are saying is that if believers insist on believing what they do, then it should be kept private; out of the public space. Atheists fall into a “militant” trap every time they remind believers that their beliefs should not encroach into the public space. You seem to understand this principle, to your credit.
However, contrary to your assertion, I would gladly “slave and toil” to understand (learn) as much about the universe as I possibly can. It is not only a moral imperative, but a matter of survival of the species, as well. There can also be no nobler persuit in life.
I’m also not going to chide you for that gallish statement that the spreading of religion (whether through war or peaceful means), had in any way contributed to scientific enlightenment. The truth is that science came to the fore, in spite of religion. It’s extremely disingenuous to state that scientific advances benefitted in any positive way from religious hegemony. Having said that, I do however believe that you did not mean anything bad in saying it; you have just been misinformed and mislead, like so many others.
Whoa Lenny. I could never be reasonable as Alex is. I thought of a comment and then I was tongue-tied the moment I read his. To each is own though. But ain’t it really interesting to talk and chime about it? I’m being overly enthusiastic… Haha.
Hey Alex, what’s your e-mail? I might learn a thing or two from you too.
Well DarkLady, I consider you to be reasonable too. You and Alex both, are finding your way, just like me. Welcome to the world of learning.
Well, if you’d like to know, my email is joemohm1@gmail.com
Sorry for responding so late, but I wrote the comment and didn’t check back until today.
hi lenny,
u cannot straight come into conclusion that God is vindictive. whether did God took their lives or not, no one can tell. The email is just a discoveration of a series of God mockering who end up gets a some form of punishment. But whether or not was it God who did the punishment, its a mystery. U shud treat this email as just a reminder to respect God and Christianity.
Afterall, if God is really vindictive, u shud be dead too, since u said God is vindictive. and anyway if its really God who took those ppl’s life in a bad manner, thats no suprise cuz God is really God.
if u are still alive, be carefull of what u say, u never know that one day, when u r just about to achieve something that u desire the most, is already ur last breath. Unless u want to tell me that u have nothing to achieve in life.
Or u may tell me, although God may take away ur life at ur point of achievement, as long as your name lived on, you are happy. Then i will ask u to keep on counting on it, since u love ur name so much more than u love ur life, u must have a terible life that u rather to just have a name.
Hi cornelius,
You have obviously misunderstood the thrust of my post. The “conclusion” that a god is vindictive, was just meant to be tongue-in-cheek.
It would be pretty impossible for something that does not exist, to be vindictive, or anything else for that matter.
hello, why is not true about what happened to this people who were not afraid of God? just because you say so?
god is our creator and it is not a vengeful God but a just God. We ask many t imes why this is happening to this child or this good woman? because many reasons. Prpbably their granparents were involved in black magic or doing bad things and this continues to other generations unless we actually look and find the real God of everything: just, kind, benevolente, compasionate
The bible, his word says we should do this or not, he is like a good father, i dont say like any father because not all fathers or mothers are good but God is like the best, wise, kind father who knows and wants our best.He tells us what we should do to have a good life just like a good,wise father will tell you. Dont wlk in that part of the city, it is dangerous, people knows what happened there. Do not dress provocatively, there are men who are disturbed and you will disrub them. It is up to the children to listen. The ones who listen will be saved of those specific dangers he told the other ones defiant or curious will put their life in danger. if they die is not because their father was bad, he told them but is up to the children to listen. It is simple. Do you understand? why must we think God is vengeful or bad of blame him for everything? He only warns us and is up to us to listen and we shouldn make fun of our earth father, worse of our Creator.
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Hi Rosaura,
If you spend as much time finding rational explanations for why things happen, as you do finding excuses for some supernatural father-figure’s whims, you would see that there are perfectly natural explanations for everything.
Perhaps you’d like to explain why millions of people are killed in natural disasters? Could it be that they didn’t “listen” and insisted in living in “dangerous parts” of the world? So all women should resort to dresing up in black tents because there are “disturbed men” out there? Come on, get real?
How ridiculous is this?
Are you suggesting that all children should stay indoors and stick their heads into their bibles, to be safe? Children learn because of their curiosity.
No, I don’t understand, I never will. There is no “black magic” or green magic or any magic. And I don’t think that god is vengeful, simply because I find it hard to see how something that probably doesn’t exist can be vengeful, or be anything for that matter.
Hey, you keep on saying this … “achieved greatness before he died and his memory lives on – what more can you ask from life?”
The Bible says in Matthew 16:26, “What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet loses his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?
These people, you are saying, had achieved greatness before they died and their memory lived on… but what happened to their souls. I certainly believe that they are suffering spiritual death (hell) and it is eternal. And the greatness you are talking about will not help them out of it – not even the people who could still remember them.
Well, I guess you won’t believe this as you don’t seem to believe in God.
There still time. You may not believe Jesus Christ but He loves you. Certainly!
God may not be pleased with your beliefs but I want you to know Jesus loves you and cares about you. Int his world, to see is to believe. But with Jesus Christ, to believe is to see. When you beleive in Him, you will experience His everlasting love. I ray that your name will not be added with the list of people who had mocked God. Again, God loves you and He is knocking in your heart.
Hi there
Prove it!
So it means that the statements of those bastards against GOd is OK with you…… Just for your punishment….. and goodluck on how you will handle it
*just wait
Sure, but I’m not holding my breath
Lenny,
I dont understand how shallow your mind is.. you just want to believe in your own knowledge, thats all you have so i understand you.
Bible is indeed accurate.
False teachers will rise and deny me as the their God.
Hi Daniel,
You believe in the “accuracy” of the bible and yet you call me shallow minded? Well don’t that beat all?
There is no such thing as “your own knowledge.” Knowledge belongs to everyone who take the trouble of seeking it out. However, you need to be selective about what to acquire and keep and what to discard. You obviously seem to have a problem with selection.
Lenny,
I posted a comment about a litle over a month ago, and I’m glad to see you’ve responded. I’m also quite impressed to see that you actually agreed with me on something. If you want to go on learning as much as possible, please do so. I’ve come to a fruition about existentialism, and it’s some pretty good shit. You never know, we might share some info to help each other out.
Also, I’ve decided not to make any animadversions on your takes on subjects. After all, you’ve had enough bitching at in my opinion. I hope you didn’t detect any hostility in my previous email, as I wanted to express my opinion.
Thanks, adieu.
Are you saying that achievements are more important than God??? Nothing is more important than God even if you achieved everything without God you’re still empty…
cassey,
No, that was probably the least important point I was trying to make. You’ve elected to ignore the whole point of this “rant” – that lying for Jesus is not cool. The secondary point is threatening people with “religiously” inspired damnation, even if it is only imagined, is also not cool.
By the way, human achievement in spite of “god” is really important – to the future survival of the species. You may not see it now, but some day your grand-children (oh, if only it could be that soon)and their children will appreciate this fact.
dear lenny, you mock god and say this is untrue we will see whos name will be next on list
Dear hello,
Are you going to pray that something nasty happens to me?
Or are you going to leave that up to your deity to “spring a nasty surprize” on me. god knows (pardon the latitude I’m taking with invoking the name of your deity) he has so little to do with the time at his disposal, he needs to get all antsy about what poor old Lenny is saying on some website in some galaxy among a hundred billion other galaxies.
Perhaps he will let that child dying of leukemia just expire, while he turns his attention to “sorting” me out? It’s his will after all, isn’t it?
There are consequences and blessings in what we do in life.
People who are too offended about what Lenny’s opinion is about this email have been too emotionally driven that they use God’s name to curse this person.
You stir up this feeling that you can’t believe that Lenny’s saying these.
It is only a simple thought, its either their time to die, or they were at the wrong place and time, or it is self-inflicted.